Brexit

[tw]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Oh they played their part in the referendum campaigns

And so we have heard. My problem is that I don't have (did not find) hard facts to better understand it. Any examples?

[DanaC]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...ets-fake-news/

An army of Russian trolls sent thousands of messages with the hashtag #ReasonsToLeaveEU on the day of Britain's referendum on membership of the EU, according to new data released by Twitter.

On 23 June 2016, the day of the Brexit vote, Russia mobilised an army of trolls, which at one stage included 3,800 accounts. The fake accounts Tweeted out 1,102 posts with the hashtag #ReasonsToLeaveEU.

The Russian-linked accounts Tweeted out the phrase “Brexit” more than 4,400 times during its period of activity, although mostly after the referendum had taken place.

The data from Twitter showed Russian and Iranian internet trolls sent more than 10 million Tweets in an effort to spread disinformation and discord in the West, including a day-long blitz on the day of the Brexit vote.

[tw]

Originally Posted by DanaC

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...ets-fake-news/

Many such reports with numbers defined the size of that misinformation campaign. But what I really needed, so as to better appreciate, are specific examples of that misinformation. Since I always find it so difficult to believe such unsupported statements would be believed by any adult.

It might be that I was raised watching advertising intentionally deceive people with phony claims - such as "smoking cigarettes increase health". Would routinely listen to international radio broadcasts promoting news or propaganda. And routinely identified the characteristic differences that separated facts from suspect myths.

I have a problem understanding why anyone would read and believe that Hilary Clinton was running a sex slave operation in a Washington pizza shop basement. Cannot understand (grasp) why anyone (any adult) would even come close to believing that.

In Brexit, I have not nor understand specific examples of what was stated that would cause anyone to believe Brexit propaganda. Yes, we have numbers that these misinformation claims were in the tens of thousands. But what exactly were they saying that would cause anyone to believe any of them? That part I just do not get.

It is a simple rule. It must also say why and with numbers. That simple rule made it so obvious that Saddam did not have WMDs. Honesty always says why with as many statements or more paragraphs than I write. Otherwise it is probably a lie.

Why would anyone believe anything that was only a paragraph or two? What sort of claims would cause anyone to believe Brexit fake news? Soundbyte replies are a first indication of a lie.

I just never saw one good example of a misinformation post that so many believed. Many tens of thousands. But I never saw a specific example that so many automatically believed. So I have difficultly understanding what propaganda is working to deceive so many Brits.

[DanaC]

Specific examples in this instance wouldn't be of value. The point was to flood the twittersphere with a weight of posts

Bear in mind a significant proportion of voters went to the poll not really knowing how they would vote or what the main issues were. Seeing a stream of pro-Brexit posts on social media gave the impression of an overwhelming level of support for leaving.

Facebook posts and tweets don't impact individually, they are just the individual droplets of water - its the deluge that does the damage.

[tw]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Seeing a stream of pro-Brexit posts on social media gave the impression of an overwhelming level of support for leaving.

That does better explain it.

I am taken by observations from Facebook's army of content editors. Some report that reading so many misinformation posts on 911 or the Moon landing actually causes them to be more receptive to statements even though they new those were lies. Due to the overwhelming constant drumbeat of that misinformation. Also an interesting mental perspective I never knew / suspected.

[DanaC]

I don't know enough about the psychological mechanisms at play but I wonder if it is similar to crowd dynamics?

[DanaC]

One of the really dangerous aspects of the whole fake news thing is that ..I think ... it plays to the subconscious. Every decision you make, every opinion, every choice happens pre-consciously and is retrospectively translated into conscious thought.

It fees like the train of our thought leads to the conclusion - but that is an illusion. That shit was already worked out in some other part of the brain, fractions of fractions of seconds before you are having that thought. facebook and twitter, soundbytes and posters - these things are quick hits that we have already responded to before we realise we've even taken the information in - by which time all that's left is for us to explain to ourselves why we are responding.

[tw]

Originally Posted by DanaC

One of the really dangerous aspects of the whole fake news thing is that ..I think ... it plays to the subconscious.

Which I believe those Facebook editors were observing. Having been told same lies enough times, then they started to believe them even though knowing each was not true.

Or another aspect applies. An ability to see through fake news requires one to always look beyond the statement - to always also demand the underlying what, whys, and perspectives. This was discussed in another thread. A fundamental difference exists between officer material and enlistedman. An enlistedman typically sees only what he is told. An officer must take known facts to 'solve the equation'; construct (grasp) a bigger picture. One who does not (cannot) do that is then easily manipulated by lies.

Even simpler rules apply. If a conclusion is not tempered by perspective (ie numbers), then an honest person has no business believing it. From what I have seen here and elsewhere (ie Democratic Convention, Cloud's experience with a Idle Air Control Valve, etc), plenty (maybe a majority) do not know how to do that.

Cloud's mechanic had a P1519 error code that means only a computer, wire, or valve is defective. So the mechanic kept replacing a part least likely to fail .... three times for $1200. Finally another mechanic replaced the $200 part that a long list of reasons (posted there) defined as clearly defective.

Why could he not see the obvious? He was not officer material. He could only keep doing what a check list ordered him to do.

Is that due to his (entrenched) subconscious? Or is that just a lack of basic thought training (obtained mostly from experience)?

Never let emotions appear anywhere in a decision. Always grasp the bigger picture. And know honest answers always require numbers. My experience is that many never learn any of these basic concepts. Therefore cannot see an obviously defective IACV valve, did not do (learn) what is necessary to be officer material, and automatically believed only what was told.

And so the question. Are we discussing a subconscious bias to not want to see underlying facts? Or is a subconscious 'screw the world; I am going to solve this' attitude necessary to make possible seeing through myths, lies, misinformation, and the not always obvious? Only the latter is officer material. Is that grounded in the subconscious?

A subconscious exampled by Facebook editors is different from the subconscious that makes possible or that obstructs discovery of a defective IAC valve. Which subconscious applies?

I am just not sure which subconscious applies? In part, because even at the age of 12, I was using these obvious thinking techniques to fix vacuum tube TVs. It was easy except when confronted by retail salesman who could not believe one so small or colored wrong could do this stuff. Solving problems is easy. It amazes me how many cannot (or fear to) do it. Getting the emotional to finally learn or cooperate - that other subconscious is not easily solved.

So I guess we now have three different subconsciouses. And crowd dynamics could apply in each case. Which applies? Oh for a clinical psychologist.

Bottom line: some people just cannot think through a problem. Why? Some people do not learn how.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by DanaC

One of the really dangerous aspects of the whole fake news thing is that ..I think ... it plays to the subconscious. Every decision you make, every opinion, every choice happens pre-consciously and is retrospectively translated into conscious thought.

It fees like the train of our thought leads to the conclusion - but that is an illusion. That shit was already worked out in some other part of the brain, fractions of fractions of seconds before you are having that thought. facebook and twitter, soundbytes and posters - these things are quick hits that we have already responded to before we realise we've even taken the information in - by which time all that's left is for us to explain to ourselves why we are responding.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_truth_effect

[xoxoxoBruce]

Perhaps I'm just an ignorant American but it appears the EU has a lot of cliques and side deals going on that I wasn't aware of.

[tw]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

... but it appears the EU has a lot of cliques and side deals going on that I wasn't aware of.

Notice that the UK wants to cut off the only economic relationship they have with all those nations. As of trade barriers, tariffs, plenty of custom duties and red tape paperwork, and restoring what was removed to solve the Ireland civil war problem - all that will somehow be good.

MPs voted for an extension to Brexit. But far more interesting is the logic being used to obfuscate everything. If British citizens, now told reality and not lies, vote again for Brexit, then that would be undemocratic. Even that bull is somehow honest or logical.

Not only is PM May incompetent. Corbyn (from the opposition party) also wants Brexit. Being incompetent, Corbyn and May cannot even agree on what they both really want. UK has no other leadership willing to stand up and protect the British economy - by voting to stay in the EU.

Incompetence among Britain leaders is, well, I cannot think of another time where so much incompetence was so widespread - even among British voters.

[tw]

PM May, today, is now blaming a collective failure in Parliament for not voting for her bogus Brexit deal. Britain's leaders are that self serving and myopic.

Problem in Britain is, well, 85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management. In this case, fools voted to do so much harm to their economy, their jobs, and their standard of living. They voted for Brexit and got leaders (and problems) they wanted.

Those many Brexit promoters listed billions of Pounds saved with Brexit. After the Brexit vote, they admitted they were lying. Those savings will not exist. And still so many British voters want economic harm - and leaders who are still promoting lies. Including and not limited to PM May ... who has yet to accomplish anything as Prime Minister.

When a leader says "plenty of blame to go around", then 99% of all problems are directly traceable to top management. These are the people that so many easily brainwashed British voters wanted.

[sexobon]

Those British who voted for Brexit were unduly influenced by Sycorax. You'll find that most of those Brexiteers have A+ blood which constitutes 42% of the UK population. It's only the remainder of about 10% that voted for Brexit, bringing the total to 51.9%, who were just blindly following others' leads.

[tw]

Originally Posted by sexobon

You'll find that most of those Brexiteers have A+ blood which constitutes 42% of the UK population.

Apparently their blood flows red. So they are really commies. A fact that would not be apparent until they riot in the streets.

[henry quirk]

"fools voted to do so much harm to their economy, their jobs, and their standard of living."

I'm thinkin' the 'fools' voted to take on hardship so as to regain their nation's autonomy.

Severing long-term ties with the EU wasn't gonna be easy or painless.

Too bad for the 'fools' they're saddled with 'leaders' instead of 'proxies'.