Ray Stevens can kiss my ass! - Page 2

Sheldonrs · 08-17-2010, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

So your objection to SB1070 really has nothing to do with fears about hypothetical racially motivated police action...but rather corporate/political corruption?

No, I'm just pointing out what I believe is the real reason behind it's passing.
Are you saying that it's OK to pass a bill through corrupt means if you like the bill?

lookout123 · 08-17-2010, 05:51 PM

Nope, just tyring to figure out the issue that actually offends you. Based on your other thread (tenuously linking 1070 to hitler) and your comments to this point I had thought you were worried about hypothetical misbehavior by the police. Now that Flint has pointed out the flaw in that argument you've switched to the corruption angle.

Do you have a back up position if someone pokes holes in your corruption argument?

Sheldonrs · 08-17-2010, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

Nope, just tyring to figure out the issue that actually offends you. Based on your other thread (tenuously linking 1070 to hitler) and your comments to this point I had thought you were worried about hypothetical misbehavior by the police. Now that Flint has pointed out the flaw in that argument you've switched to the corruption angle.

Do you have a back up position if someone pokes holes in your corruption argument?

Flint poked no holes in my argument. Neither have you. My bottom line is the bill is wrong by singling out one specific group.
You can quote the text of the bill all you want, the reality is this IS racial profiling, it WILL be abused by law enforcement run by Sheriff Joe and no matter how much you disagree, it does not change that.

lookout123 · 08-17-2010, 06:19 PM

You do understand that Arpaio is only the county sherriff, right? He has no authority over any of the dozens of other LE organizations in AZ. Beyond that little detail you might want to remember that county deputies have been operating under these guidelines for quite awhile.

This isn't a 'get the beaner' law, it's a 'ICE doesn't do shit in phoenix so we'll ensure local LE are all on the same page as current federal law' law.

Flint · 08-17-2010, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheldonrs

Flint poked no holes in my argument.

You haven't stated an argument that relates to this law. Do you have one?

Sheldonrs · 08-17-2010, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

You do understand that Arpaio is only the county sherriff, right? He has no authority over any of the dozens of other LE organizations in AZ. Beyond that little detail you might want to remember that county deputies have been operating under these guidelines for quite awhile.

This isn't a 'get the beaner' law, it's a 'ICE doesn't do shit in phoenix so we'll ensure local LE are all on the same page as current federal law' law.

Sheriff Joe has a funny way of interpreting rules. Like refusing to send his officers into towns where the city boards don't let him in to randomly search local businesses for illegals, even when there is no evidence they are there.

Sheldonrs · 08-17-2010, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

You haven't stated an argument that relates to this law. Do you have one?

One more time, my argument is with how this law came about as well as how I know it will be abused.

spudcon · 08-17-2010, 08:13 PM

My understanding is the Az law is a carbon copy of the Federal law. The Feds aren't holding up their end of law enforcement, so the Az law just allows police to do what the Feds are not doing, which is protecting American citizens.

jinx · 08-17-2010, 08:15 PM

Yeah, but its targeting people who break that law so its fucked up and abusive. See?

lookout123 · 08-17-2010, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheldonrs

Sheriff Joe has a funny way of interpreting rules. Like refusing to send his officers into towns where the city boards don't let him in to randomly search local businesses for illegals, even when there is no evidence they are there.

Either you never leave Scottsdale or you are kidding. The town you are talking about is Guadalupe. They don't have their own police force and used to contract with the county for police services. Then they decided to start telling the Sherriff's office they only wanted some of the laws enforced. I can understand their request when you considering a very large portion of their town is illegal.

dmg1969 · 08-19-2010, 11:39 AM

I'd just like to ask Sheldon straight out...do you support the sovereignty of the U.S. and its right to enforce its borders? For the sake of argument, lets say that the feds pull over a van full of suspected illegals. Do THEY have the right to ask for ID? If so, what is the difference between locals and feds doing the same job? If not, WTF?

Sheldonrs · 08-20-2010, 04:22 PM

Here is my opinion:

I don't give a flying fuck how someone gets into this country. If they work and pay taxes, they can be emigres from Hell for all I care.

One world; one people.

Flint · 08-20-2010, 04:43 PM

Oh, so you oppose ANY kind of immigration law, including the FEDERAL immigration laws which ALREADY EXIST. So, I assume you are writing congress to get those FEDERAL immigration laws taken off the books, right? Because they are racist, and blah blah blah, whatever... right?

Certainly you're not thinking that Arizona passing an identical law would change the federal law that already exists, are you? That would mean that you know nothing about this subject and have done nothing to try to understand it. That can't be the case, can it?

Poor Mr. Stevens, dying in a fire over a simple misunderstanding.

lookout123 · 08-20-2010, 04:51 PM

That's a great philosphy. Now if only we can get everyone to stand in a giant group hug we'll be all set.

See the problem you're encountering is that you don't want to worry about pesky little things like borders, laws, and public safety. You want to live in a fuzzy little imaginary world where only peace loving, hard working, jolly good folks are welcomed with open arms. You'll ignore the fact they are breaking the law by entering the country without permission because, by golly, they aren't crimininals. It must be difficult for you to ignore the human trafficking, forced prostitution, and drug smuggling that goes hand in hand with illegal immigration.

jinx · 08-20-2010, 05:36 PM

Not to mention the permanent separate class these people exist in. They get services they don't pay for, even if they are employed, but in trade they live in constant fear of being caught and sent back. Every aspect of their life is shady, under the table, back alley... they are as much victims as they are criminals. It's just not right.

08-17-2010, 05:51 PM	#17
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	Nope, just tyring to figure out the issue that actually offends you. Based on your other thread (tenuously linking 1070 to hitler) and your comments to this point I had thought you were worried about hypothetical misbehavior by the police. Now that Flint has pointed out the flaw in that argument you've switched to the corruption angle. Do you have a back up position if someone pokes holes in your corruption argument? __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

08-17-2010, 06:19 PM	#19
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	You do understand that Arpaio is only the county sherriff, right? He has no authority over any of the dozens of other LE organizations in AZ. Beyond that little detail you might want to remember that county deputies have been operating under these guidelines for quite awhile. This isn't a 'get the beaner' law, it's a 'ICE doesn't do shit in phoenix so we'll ensure local LE are all on the same page as current federal law' law. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

08-17-2010, 08:13 PM	#23
spudcon Beware of potatoes Join Date: May 2007 Location: Upstate NY, USA Posts: 2,078	My understanding is the Az law is a carbon copy of the Federal law. The Feds aren't holding up their end of law enforcement, so the Az law just allows police to do what the Feds are not doing, which is protecting American citizens. __________________ "I believe that being despised by the despicable is as good as being admired by the admirable."

08-17-2010, 08:15 PM	#24
jinx Come on, cat. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: general vicinity of Philadelphia area Posts: 7,013	Yeah, but its targeting people who break that law so its fucked up and abusive. See? __________________ Crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good.

08-19-2010, 11:39 AM	#26
dmg1969 I got nothing Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Central PA Posts: 486	I'd just like to ask Sheldon straight out...do you support the sovereignty of the U.S. and its right to enforce its borders? For the sake of argument, lets say that the feds pull over a van full of suspected illegals. Do THEY have the right to ask for ID? If so, what is the difference between locals and feds doing the same job? If not, WTF? __________________ Void where prohibited. Your results may vary. Not intended for resale. Do not remove tag. Objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

08-20-2010, 04:22 PM	#27
Sheldonrs Master Dwellar Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 4,412	Here is my opinion: I don't give a flying fuck how someone gets into this country. If they work and pay taxes, they can be emigres from Hell for all I care. One world; one people. __________________ Laugh and the world laughs with you; cry and the world laughs AT you.

08-20-2010, 04:43 PM	#28
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	Oh, so you oppose ANY kind of immigration law, including the FEDERAL immigration laws which ALREADY EXIST. So, I assume you are writing congress to get those FEDERAL immigration laws taken off the books, right? Because they are racist, and blah blah blah, whatever... right? Certainly you're not thinking that Arizona passing an identical law would change the federal law that already exists, are you? That would mean that you know nothing about this subject and have done nothing to try to understand it. That can't be the case, can it? Poor Mr. Stevens, dying in a fire over a simple misunderstanding. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

08-20-2010, 04:51 PM	#29
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	That's a great philosphy. Now if only we can get everyone to stand in a giant group hug we'll be all set. See the problem you're encountering is that you don't want to worry about pesky little things like borders, laws, and public safety. You want to live in a fuzzy little imaginary world where only peace loving, hard working, jolly good folks are welcomed with open arms. You'll ignore the fact they are breaking the law by entering the country without permission because, by golly, they aren't crimininals. It must be difficult for you to ignore the human trafficking, forced prostitution, and drug smuggling that goes hand in hand with illegal immigration. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

08-20-2010, 05:36 PM	#30
jinx Come on, cat. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: general vicinity of Philadelphia area Posts: 7,013	Not to mention the permanent separate class these people exist in. They get services they don't pay for, even if they are employed, but in trade they live in constant fear of being caught and sent back. Every aspect of their life is shady, under the table, back alley... they are as much victims as they are criminals. It's just not right. __________________ Crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good.

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