Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy

[Cyber Wolf]

Maybe I'm the exception, but I wasn't at all traumatized by finding out about Santa, the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny too. The Easter Bunny was the last one I found out about, mainly because I could never understand how he(she/it?) would get into my room, past my alarms and traps. (I wanted to take its picture ) If anything, finding out about these stories made me want to learn more about mythology and where those stories came from and their origins, then the origins of that soceity and the people...in short, it helped kick off my love of learning more than it caused me to not trust my parents or feel I'm not loved or feel I've been lied to, etc. I'm a total myth and legend junkie now and I'm glad my parents got me interested in stories and myths like that and I fully intend to do the same with my kids...if I have any kids.

Perhaps its possible to let kids live with these stories and, when they find out, use that experience to introduce children to myths and legends from all over the world? So much of our soceity is built on characters, places and events of myths (Nike, for example, wasn't originally a sneaker and the concept of the 26 mile marathon came from the same place). If nothing else, it'll help them later on when they want to do crossword puzzles

[perth]

But the thing is, you can nurture an interest in mythology without letting your children believe a lie (it may be harsh to call it a lie, but let's call a spade a spade). Mythology is fascinating and almost always entertaining, I'm quite partial to Nordic and Irish mythology. Again, I think it's best, in my case, to allow my child to live the fantasy, but make sure he knows it's fantasy. I'm not going to dupe my kid.

And I'm not sure how Nike and the 26 mile marathon are related. Nike was, if I remember correctly the Greek Goddess of Victory, and the 26 mile marathon came from, what, when Phillipides (sp?) ran from Athens to Sparta (a distance of about 26 miles) to request help.

Oh, I getcha. both Greek. Duh.

[lumberjim]

anyone ever go on a 'snipe hunt'?

[Happy Monkey]

I searched for, and sent people to search for, left handed smokeshifters and skyhooks.

[perth]

I worked at KMart for a while in high school, and sent a new employee to the basement to find the tire chains for the shopping carts once when it started snowing.

[lumberjim]

when i was a mason, i was asked to look in the truck for a left handed block stretcher. i didnt fall for it.

i used to send new students down "by the pool" for whatever classroom they were looking for. there was no pool

[Cyber Wolf]

Originally Posted by perth

But the thing is, you can nurture an interest in mythology without letting your children believe a lie (it may be harsh to call it a lie, but let's call a spade a spade). Mythology is fascinating and almost always entertaining, I'm quite partial to Nordic and Irish mythology. Again, I think it's best, in my case, to allow my child to live the fantasy, but make sure he knows it's fantasy. I'm not going to dupe my kid.

Of course, you can nuture interest in mythology in other ways. My point is, that 'dupe' is how I got interested in it. All fictional stories are lies in the same way magic shows lie to the audience. How they affect people depends on how they are applied and what kind of understanding the reader/listener has. If a child asked where Spongebob Squarepants lived, would it be better to tell the child "Oh he doesn't really exist, but everyone pretends he lives under the sea." Heck, with the fervor Squarepants has created, you might find some full fledged adults who would refuse to be believe you out of fandom

[perth]

Heh, pulling the Spongebob argument is below the belt.

Okay, so I was raised by parents who let me believe in Santa Claus (And yeah, I was devastated to find out. Bias revealed. Nothing to see here, move along). However, had I expressed a fervent belief in the existence of Lion-O or Optimus Prime, I like to think they would have corrected me. I'm not sure how to put this into words, but what I'm getting at is that while characters like Spongebob are culturally iconic on a scale similar to that of Santa Claus, there is a difference. I'm not sure if the difference is based on longevity, close relationship to a major holiday or life event, or something else entirely. So in my mind we're comparing apples and oranges.

But I do agree that it is *possible* to expose a child to the truth without causing (much) harm, and your experience is evidence of that. I guess what I don't understand is why a parent would think that way. "Oh it's okay to let them think that now, I'll break it to them easy one day". Well, what if you fuck that up? I'd rather tell the truth from the start than have to fess up to a lie later on. It still boils down to whether a person should lie to the people that trust them most in the world. And I think the answer to that should always be "no".

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by juju

Intentionaly deceiving children without a good reason is horribly wrong. When kids eventually find out their parents have been perpetuating a fantasy and fucking with their heads, I think some measure of respect and trust in the parents is lost.
.

i know! i think i was on my 3rd therapist when i found out all of my life's problems could be attributed to my parents allowing me to believe in santa as a young child.

[lumberjim]

party poopers. you wait until your kids are a little older. you'll be lying your natural ass off to them. mark my words.....MARK THEM, I SAY!

[perth]

I doubt it, but I will acquiesce to your greater experience in the fileld of child-rearing and say "maybe, but I hope not".

[juju]

I know the psychological harm is minimal at best. To me, it's the principle of the matter. If I want to treat my kids with respect, then I should be consitent. Otherwise, I'm not respecting them at all.

All too often, I see parents lying to their children (over non-holiday things) just because they don't know any different.

For example, my mom and I used to go to the mall. Whenever I'd ask her if I could have a toy, she'd usually just say that she didn't have any money. How can you argue with that? If she's broke, she's broke. Well, one day she told me this, and not 30 minutes later, she opened her purse to buy something for herself, and there was a sea of money in there. What a lying bitch! I realized then that she had been telling me that she was broke all this time because she knew that I would believe anything. She never respected me. She loved me, but she didn't respect me.

I can't think of any other examples right now, but I know there are lots and lots. Parents are ALWAYS lying to their kids because it's convenient and they don't know any better. If it's about sex or something to do with their own safety, then that's different. But some people take it way too far.

Yes, the Santa thing is peanuts. But like I said, if I pledge to treat my child like a real human being, then I should go all the way and be consistent with it. Otherwise, I'm violating my principles.

[juju]

Hey, Perth, I was just looking at an old quotes file on my hard drive (which I didn't even know I had), and I came across this quote attributed to you:

<blockquote><i>im not sure that was a conscious intent, his intent was to instill respect. either way, its still the wrong way to go about it. basilbrush said respect breeds respect, and i think thats true. my father never understood that. i was his son, so dammit, i owe him respect. well, i dont know about respect, but sometimes i feel like i owe him a good asskicking.</i></blockquote>

Kinda neat that I came across this by chance.

[BrianR]

I always had good results sending new mess attendants to the armory for the biscuit gun.

Oh, and I once got a junior officer one afternoon by noting that he was flying the fair weather flag in the rain. He sent up to the sig shack for the foul weather ensign. Gotcha! LOL

[BrianR]

Same thing my parents told me.

No Santa, the guy in a red suit, does not exist.

But, Santa as a concept, as a metaphor for goodwill and generosity to others, THAT is real as long as people keep that idea alive. It can never die, unless legislated out of existance.

Thus, to me, Santa does exist. Except in New Jersey. And BWI traffic.

Brian