Now that Georgie has lost the Election...

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by vsp

...

My point is that there are a lot of factors that go into the situation. There are going to be people from the military that refuse to fight americans, hell there are going to be people who line up for it, and there are more guns and people outside of the military than in it.

[Dagney]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

If you believe there will be a draft, and you voted on that basis, you are a loser, an idiot, and a moron, and I can prove it to within several significant digits.

UT, could you please share that information, it could be handy this afternoon.

Dag

[Trilby]

I used to think like you, Dagney. I am just like you only I make pretty good money (for slave labor, that is.)--The republican's tax just as much as the dems only instead of giving it back to the people--where it belongs--they give it to companies like enron, halliburton, adelphia, oh, and to themselves. They squeeze the middle class. My hospital doesn't turn people away because they've no insurance--they eat the cost. Teachers don't deny their students classroom goods, they just pay for it themselves, out of their own pockets, because the money that was supposed to be there from the gov't is now in some rich white guys pocket.

[Dagney]

Hrmm..you didn't get your tax cut in 2003?

[vsp]

Originally Posted by wolf

Has everybody vented their drama yet?

Let it go, and get on with your lives.

Nope. I've got about four more years of drama left, or at least as long as it'll be legal to vent it.

My primary political party is now marginalized to a point that won't be recoverable for decades, if ever. There is no reason for the Republicans to even pretend to work towards bipartisanism; the likes of DeLay will use this mandate as a bludgeon to do what they want, how they want, when they want, with Senatorial filibusters remaining the Democrats' last-ditch and rarely-used method of delaying the inevitable. Not preventing; delaying.

More wars. More dead bodies. More tax cuts. Higher deficits. More faith-based programs and rhetoric. More redistricting follies. More input from the religious right. More frontal assaults on social and economic programs. More ultraconservative judges on the Supreme Court. More Ashcroft. More pressure on the remaining Democrats to cave in and simply give the Republicans everything they want.

THAT'S what yesterday's election endorsed; it was anything but a simple choice of one leader versus another. The Democratic Party wasn't defeated, it was fucking slaughtered across the board, apart from the mercy killing of Alan Keyes. The Democrats had been reduced to a whimper _before_ this last stand, and the evangelicals came out to ensure that not only would it stay that way, but that the country'd be FURTHER tilted in the God, Guns and Anti-Gay direction.

The Religious Right is at the controls in ways they never managed even during the Reagan administration. The Constitution Restoration Act (which would remove the Supreme and federal courts' jurisdiction over any Establishment Clause issues)? It's coming. We barely dodged it the last time. There is an absolutely _desperate_ need for the remaining Democrats to block as many judicial appointments as possible now, and it's simply (IMHO) not going to happen.

So yeah, I _am_ fucking angry and nervous and scared and needing to vent. The two-party political system I've grown up knowing is over now; now it's a 900-pound gorilla dictating terms to its token opposition and to the world at large. If you're seriously suggesting that I should "get over it" before the corpse is even cold, you can go screw yourself.

[redsonia]

Originally Posted by Dagney

Okay, I REALLY need someone to explain to me (apparently because I'm stupid) why someone who voted for Bush is a retarted rabbit.

. . .

You may not be happy with what happened last night. You may be plotting to have Ohio surgically removed from the union. You may even be thinking about moving to Canada (mapquest has good directions....have at it). But why does a difference in opinion make someone stupid?

We had this discussion last night, while watching the election returns. I have voted before, many times, and my choice has lost sometimes. I have never felt as much rage and befuddlement as I have felt during this election. I think, more than anything, it's the war in Iraq.

Economic and domestic differences are minor compared to the fact that innocent people (i.e. collateral damage) are being killed regularly by American forces. People who vote for George Bush are endorsing this kind of behaviour and I feel it's a divide I cannot bridge.

I have to believe it's stupidity of the sort herd animals exhibit when blindly following a herd leader. Otherwise, it's a deliberate decision on the American voter's part that other people in the world are not worth as much as Americans are. ("If we fight the terror war in Iraq, they'll leave the U.S. alone." Why is an Iraqi child worth less than an American one?) If our vote is deliberate rather than sheer stupidity, I am ashamed to be an American. We are the terrorists in Iraq, and we deserve what we get. And George Bush will NEVER get his hands on my children to fight his senseless, evil wars.

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by Dagney

Hrmm..you didn't get your tax cut in 2003?

that wasn't a cut, dag. that was an advance.

[iamthewalrus109]

All of this talk of George Bush's evilness and the evil nature of all his pursuits begs the question: Isn't he just a manifestation of this country's essence? Sure America gets what it deserves, because America was asleep making money while our government, our miltary, and corporate eminsaries of our government and military were raping the world. Why wake up now? It was all fun and games when times were good and the World Trade Center was still standing, who cares at the time if we're funding groups that lead to the death and opression of thousands of people while claiming to look for fair settlements, freedom and peace, we were drinking lattes and making money. Now when the preverbial shit hits the fan, no one wants to commit to the Militrary-globalist-imperial-capitalisitc machine that keeps all our fat mouths and egos fed. Wake up! It's either your part of the team or not It's either your for oppressive global trade and military practices that slant economic trends towards the US or not, there's no in between. People really think at this point we can turn around and live our little greedy lives withough fitting the bill, they're wrong. It's either we give up a hell of a lot, or we continue to fight these wars, bottom line. If you don't like, quit your job and take up arms, mobilize a formidible opposition, or be part of the pillaging and war machine, otherwise your just straddling the fence I'm afraid.

-Walrus

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Dagney

Democrats have generally been supporters of more Social Programs...the funding of which comes from where....let's see...more tax dollars, which in turn reduces my pay check. Republicans have generally be supporters of fewer Social Programs, preferring that people do what they can to support themselves...

And yet, the red states are the ones that get most of the tax dollars, from the blue states. It would be a bit of justice if we told the red states to go and pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.

You have bootstraps....tug on them, you may be suprised where you get.

Of course, that idiom is used to refer to people with remarkable skill or luck, since taken literally it is impossible. Most people who tug on their shoes will squish their toes, not float into the air.

[Undertoad]

Well I think we had this discussion here but -- the Pentagon doesn't want or need a draft. Democrat Rangel introduced a bill to reinstate the draft two years ago. Nobody cared. A few weeks ago the legislators brought it back out to make a point, and subsequently voted it down unanimously. Even Rangel voted against his own bill.

A draft is so politically unpopular that neither side will bring it about lest they be voted out the next election. The Pentagon is able to recruit effectively if/when they want to.

All this did not stop Kerry from pressing it in rumorlike fashion, never saying "He will bring back the draft", but instead saying things like "backdoor draft" to describe a condition that volunteers volunteered themselves for. Dancing around the issue in order to take it. The truth is that the draft reflected a different national personality and different national conditions.

The difficult truth is that those red states seem unwilling to believe the D party can be hard-nosed on national defense. Whining about a draft that doesn't and won't exist, won't help.

[Trilby]

No draft--just extension of tours ad infinitem? You've no idea what's to happen in the next four years. No crystal ball. My sons will not go. I'd like to see Jenna and Barbara headed out to Iraq, though.

[Beestie]

Originally Posted by marichiko

Easy for you to say.

Look at the bright side: now you have someone to blame. Someone for whom responsibility for your situation can be continuously assigned.

[wolf]

If your sons don't want to go, then they shouldn't sign up.

But, doing so is their choice, not yours.

I'm imagining something like the distress felt by pagan families when they find out they've raised a good Christian.

You children will do what they wish to do, and that could even including joining the military.

I come from a good liberal family, you know. My mother is quite ashamed that I'm a conservative. You think you guys are bad in your distress over the Bush Victory? At least I can talk back to you ... talking back to my elderly mother with a heart condition results in trips to the ER that I can do without.

[garnet]

Originally Posted by Brianna

I'd like to see Jenna and Barbara headed out to Iraq, though.

I wouldn't mind seeing that myself.

[OnyxCougar]

The senators and representatives that I wrote to all stated to the effect that "we won't vote for a draft unless we have to vote for a draft."

Hardly inspires confidence there won't be one. With declining recruitment numbers, I don't discount it. With more than half the people in America voting for Bush's policies and now a Republican Congress to back him up, who knows what will happen?