the difference between 17 and 18

Catwoman · 03-01-2005, 11:14 AM

Yes, but how can you tell? If you kill a 17 year old, by the same logic, you must kill a 5 year old for the same crime.

Schrodinger's Cat · 03-01-2005, 11:30 AM

I am for the most part opposed to the death penalty. If it is wrong to take a human life, then the law should have to adhere to the same morality. It's rather like saying, "Do as I say and not as I do." And, really, the death penalty amounts to an easy out. The convicted killer committed these horrific acts and gets euthanized. That's nice. I bet most of the victim's deaths were nowhere near as easy and painless as lethal injection. Let the bastards rot in a maximum security cell for 40 years to reflect upon their sins. If you want to punish someone, that's the way to do it. It would also end this ridiculously arbitrary line between someone who at age 17 and 364 days commits a murder versus someone who commits a murder at age 18 and 0 days.

Troubleshooter · 03-01-2005, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schrodinger's Cat

I am for the most part opposed to the death penalty. If it is wrong to take a human life, then the law should have to adhere to the same morality.

The gov't has a different set of responsibilities from either of us. The death penalty is a form of self-defense for society.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schrodinger's Cat

And, really, the death penalty amounts to an easy out. The convicted killer committed these horrific acts and gets euthanized. That's nice. I bet most of the victim's deaths were nowhere near as easy and painless as lethal injection. Let the bastards rot in a maximum security cell for 40 years to reflect upon their sins. If you want to punish someone, that's the way to do it. It would also end this ridiculously arbitrary line between someone who at age 17 and 364 days commits a murder versus someone who commits a murder at age 18 and 0 days.

Having society decide whether to punish or rehabilitate first would be a good idea.

Griff · 03-01-2005, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter

The death penalty is a form of self-defense for society.

self-defense definition – self-defense is the use of force to protect oneself or one’s family from harm; self defense is generally justified if it is proportional to the danger posed.

The individual nut in prison poses no serious danger to society. Are you thinking of punishing the nut for the potential crimes of others (deterent argument)? I'm not keen on the state wielding any more power than is absolutely necessary.

Anybody else thinking about the abortion debate's arbitrary line...

Schrodinger's Cat · 03-01-2005, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter

The gov't has a different set of responsibilities from either of us. The death penalty is a form of self-defense for society.

Well, it's not working too well. Doesn't the US have one of the highest - if not THE highest - homicide rates of any Western country?

Frankly, I don't think murderers sit around doing cost/benefit analyses before they commit their deeds. ("Let's see. That guy has a $1000 in his pocket. I can walk over and shoot him and be $1000 richer. Of course, if I'm caught, I'll get the death penalty, but then again I COULD claim I'd just eaten a twinkie and get out after two years. Hmmm.... Yes or no?").

Troubleshooter · 03-01-2005, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schrodinger's Cat

Well, it's not working too well. Doesn't the US have one of the highest - if not THE highest - homicide rates of any Western country?

Frankly, I don't think murderers sit around doing cost/benefit analyses before they commit their deeds. ("Let's see. That guy has a $1000 in his pocket. I can walk over and shoot him and be $1000 richer. Of course, if I'm caught, I'll get the death penalty, but then again I COULD claim I'd just eaten a twinkie and get out after two years. Hmmm.... Yes or no?").

That's why I qualified my statement with the idea of getting a better system set up.

Studies have shown a 10 lower IQ mean in prisoners compared to people on the outside. And considering the behavior of the people on the outside...

lookout123 · 03-01-2005, 02:42 PM

sweet! this is going to make it really easy. all we have to do is give everyone an IQ test and execute those that are criminally stupid.

edit: the more i think, the more i like this plan. it has a multitude of benefits

A) about 3/4 of our politicians would be gone and we could look for some honest replacements
B) it would be a boon to the economy, especially in the labor market, think of all the workers needed to dig graves, etc...
- unemployment would drop to... well, maybe nothing.
C) people who drive at 50 in the left hand lane would be gone!!!

where do i vote for this plan?

Troubleshooter · 03-01-2005, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

sweet! this is going to make it really easy. all we have to do is give everyone an IQ test and execute those that are criminally stupid.

*sigh*

As laudable as that idea seems on the surface, it fails in that you can't test for criminal stupidity, only lower cognitive functioning.

dar512 · 03-01-2005, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catwoman

Yes, but how can you tell? If you kill a 17 year old, by the same logic, you must kill a 5 year old for the same crime.

Most 17 year olds can understand the consequences of their actions and are capable of malice with forethought. I don't think the same is true of any five year olds.

03-01-2005, 11:14 AM	#1
Catwoman stalking a Tom Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: on the edge of the english channel Posts: 1,000	Yes, but how can you tell? If you kill a 17 year old, by the same logic, you must kill a 5 year old for the same crime. __________________ I've decided I'm not going to have a signature anymore.

03-01-2005, 11:30 AM	#2
Schrodinger's Cat Macavity Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: A Black Box Posts: 157	I am for the most part opposed to the death penalty. If it is wrong to take a human life, then the law should have to adhere to the same morality. It's rather like saying, "Do as I say and not as I do." And, really, the death penalty amounts to an easy out. The convicted killer committed these horrific acts and gets euthanized. That's nice. I bet most of the victim's deaths were nowhere near as easy and painless as lethal injection. Let the bastards rot in a maximum security cell for 40 years to reflect upon their sins. If you want to punish someone, that's the way to do it. It would also end this ridiculously arbitrary line between someone who at age 17 and 364 days commits a murder versus someone who commits a murder at age 18 and 0 days. __________________ Macavity, Macavity, there's no on like Macavity, He's broken every human law, he breaks the law of gravity. - T.S. Eliot, Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats

03-01-2005, 02:42 PM	#7
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	sweet! this is going to make it really easy. all we have to do is give everyone an IQ test and execute those that are criminally stupid. edit: the more i think, the more i like this plan. it has a multitude of benefits A) about 3/4 of our politicians would be gone and we could look for some honest replacements B) it would be a boon to the economy, especially in the labor market, think of all the workers needed to dig graves, etc... - unemployment would drop to... well, maybe nothing. C) people who drive at 50 in the left hand lane would be gone!!! where do i vote for this plan? __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin Last edited by lookout123; 03-01-2005 at 02:45 PM.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)