Chemical Dependency/Illness or weakness

[Brett's Honey]

I totally agree that alcohol and drug addiction is a choice - not a disease. They are addictions extremely difficult to overcome for a lot of people, but still choices. The fact that some people do quit, some with rehab or other forms of help, some cold turkey, shows me that unlike a disease, it is a choice. I have family members that I love with some of these problems, so I am familiar with this issue.
My 43 year old ex sister-in-law draws SSI - Supplemental Security Income because she is a drug addict and alcoholic and therefore supposedly unable to work!! Her history of a few emergency room visits due to overdoses (some suicide ?? attempts), admitting herself to rehab centers a few times, and twice being committed to rehab against her will by family members apparently was enough documentation for Social Security for her to qualify for a monthly SSI check. I guess she'll receive these forever, she's drawn it for about 6 or 7 years so far. I think this is just WRONG! Sure, she had a rough childhood, had two kids by the age of 16, has been married and divorced eight times, but life's been rough for a lot of us.
A friend of mine with MS struggled for over two years to become eligible for SSI. By the time she started receiving checks she was in a wheelchair, couldn't walk at all, couldn't comb her hair, get herself to the bathroom, or even write a check without stopping a couple of times to take a break due to the severe pain. THAT is a disease!

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Brett's Honey

I totally agree that alcohol and drug addiction is a choice - not a disease. They are addictions extremely difficult to overcome for a lot of people, but still choices. The fact that some people do quit, some with rehab or other forms of help, some cold turkey, shows me that unlike a disease, it is a choice.

While that is evidence, it's not proof. People have recovered from diseases generally considered incurable before.

[Brett's Honey]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Brett's Honey

I totally agree that alcohol and drug addiction is a choice - not a disease. They are addictions extremely difficult to overcome for a lot of people, but still choices.

When I wrote this post, I had just picked up my son from his Dad's house - which is, at this time, a half-way house. I've been so proud of him, and happy and hopeful for him thinking he is really going to "make it" this time, after 13 DUI's, many times in jail, 3 times in rehab, etc. It hurts me and my son to see him struggle and hurt fighting alcoholism. When we were leaving, he told us he was going out drinking later with some guys from work. He didn't look happy about it at all, but he was going. He had made the decision - the choice. So, the three of us looked sadly at each other and said good-bye. My son didn't talk on the way home. I didn't either, I didn't know what to say. He's been sober this time for about a month. Seeing my ex hurt my son makes me mad, but still I wish so much that he could stay sober and be happy.
But didn't he make the choice???

[Trilby]

[quote=Brett's Honey]

When I wrote this post, I had just picked up my son from his Dad's house - which is, at this time, a half-way house. I've been so proud of him, and happy and hopeful for him thinking he is really going to "make it" this time, after 13 DUI's, many times in jail, 3 times in rehab, etc. It hurts me and my son to see him struggle and hurt fighting alcoholism. When we were leaving, he told us he was going out drinking later with some guys from work. He didn't look happy about it at all, but he was going. He had made the decision - the choice. So, the three of us looked sadly at each other and said good-bye. My son didn't talk on the way home. I didn't either, I didn't know what to say. He's been sober this time for about a month. Seeing my ex hurt my son makes me mad, but still I wish so much that he could stay sober and be happy.
But didn't he make the choice???

Wow--there are so many layers of hurt in there, I don't know where to start so I will just say that my heart goes out to all three of you. Your son!! His son!! Insanity!! How can he be staying at a halfway house that doesn't kick him out for drinking?? I thought that was the whole purpose FOR the 1/2way house. WHY would he say that in front of you two?? There has got to be more to this story. Is he looking for your sympathy, etc.? Addicts are good at that angle as I'm sure you are well aware. A guy with that track record has got to know his days are numbered. Does he have a sponsor, etc? Drinking and drug use is a compulsion for the addict. At times it feels like there is NO choice but to use. If that sounds crazy, then you're not an addict.

[Brett's Honey]

How can he be staying at a halfway house that doesn't kick him out for drinking??

They get two days a week out. If they get caught drinking, there are consequences.

WHY would he say that in front of you two??

Glad you asked. Obviously I need to explore that. I was so wrapped up in MY feelings about the whole thing, I didn't think that far. You're right - he's gotta be wanting to ask for something from us......I think your input will get my thoughts going down a more constructive path now.......thanks!

[Brown Thrasher]

Originally Posted by Brett's Honey

They get two days a week out. If they get caught drinking, there are consequences.

Glad you asked. Obviously I need to explore that. I was so wrapped up in MY feelings about the whole thing, I didn't think that far. You're right - he's gotta be wanting to ask for something from us......I think your input will get my thoughts going down a more constructive path now.......thanks!

I don't know how old your son is, but he must be in his 20's-30's to have has 13 dui's and has been in treatment three times.

Most half-way hoses make A.A./N.A. meetings mandatory at leat five times per week. Also, upon arrival from pass(some do not even have passes), they receive a urine drug screen. alcohol will show up in the body for 24 hrs.

I remeber going to jail in my 20's for DUI. I called my dad; guess what he said. You were smart enough to get in, so you must be smart enough to get out.
However, My mother being the great enabler bailed me out.

The point being, as long as an alcoholic/addict can depend on someome to get them out of their consequnces the pattern will continue.

I'm going to let the cat out of the bag. I'm sure most of you have figured it out anway. I am an alcoholic. The only way an alcoholic/addict will get sober is when the consequences become severe enough that he/she would rather be sober than high. Let me clarify that, it is according to what stage of their addiction they are in. I"ve seen a man get sober and stay that way for many years because his wife threatned to leave him. I've also seen people given the choice of jail or treatment rather go to jail.

There is a thing called intrvention. This is where people who care about the person get together, and they plan an intervention. Mother, father, spouse, girlfriend, pastor etc.... They don't let the affected person know about it. It works better, after the addicted person has just done something negative like going to jail. The intervention group gets together and each person that cares about the person tells the addict how their addiction is affecting their life.

Once again, alcoholics and addicts don't get sober and stay that way unless they want to stay sober more than use. Unless they go to prison or die.

I hope this helps. Remember as long as an addict has someone to clean up their messes, they will most likely continue in their addiction. It's called tough love! I could go on and on, but people have to make their own decisions. Hang in there!!!!!

[xoxoxoBruce]

You're mixing apples and oranges. While certainly on the surface alcoholics and addicts share many of the same cause and effect problems, they are two different animals. That's why AA doesn't want addicts.
Being an alcoholic doesn't make you knowledgeable about addicts and vice versa.
My buddy says he gave up drugs because it interfered with his drinking.

[Brown Thrasher]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

You're mixing apples and oranges. While certainly on the surface alcoholics and addicts share many of the same cause and effect problems, they are two different animals. That's why AA doesn't want addicts.
Being an alcoholic doesn't make you knowledgeable about addicts and vice versa.
My buddy says he gave up drugs because it interfered with his drinking.

You seem to know something about the subject, your right alcoholics don't care much for addicts. However, visit an N.A. meeting and let him introduce himself as an alcoholic. Being an alcoholic, does not make you knowlegable about drug addiction. They do share many traits. It's the social issue in most cases. I assure you to be educated on both sides of the coin. Your buddy did a smart thing, at least he is not still dual-addicted.......

[404Error]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

You're mixing apples and oranges. While certainly on the surface alcoholics and addicts share many of the same cause and effect problems, they are two different animals. That's why AA doesn't want addicts...

I don't think there is that drastic of a difference between the two. Addicts and alcoholics share a compulsion to use an addicting substance and the treatment, per se, is very similar. I've never been to an AA meeting where an addict wasn't welcome and visa versa, many people that go to these meeting are cross addicted. While NA and AA use practically the same 12 step program, some of the wording is different to suit each particular addiction.

[Brett's Honey]

[

QUOTE=Brown Thrasher]I don't know how old your son is, but he must be in his 20's-30's to have has 13 dui's and has been in treatment three times.

I wasn't very clear in my post - it is my ex-husband (my son's father) who is the alcoholic. My son and I are trying to give him all the support we can. He knows he likes life better sober, but he cannot seem to stay that way.

However, My mother being the great enabler bailed me out.

I'm glad you mentioned this. I have to Remember to NOT do this for my son, if he should ever start drinking like his Dad does. I watched my Mother enable my younger brother, so I should know what NOT to do!

[Brown Thrasher]

Originally Posted by Brett's Honey

[I wasn't very clear in my post - it is my ex-husband (my son's father) who is the alcoholic. My son and I are trying to give him all the support we can. He knows he likes life better sober, but he cannot seem to stay that way.

I'm glad you mentioned this. I have to Remember to NOT do this for my son, if he should ever start drinking like his Dad does. I watched my Mother enable my younger brother, so I should know what NOT to do!

My suggestion to you is attending AL-Anon meetings, if you haven't already. This program is designed for family members and others that care for an alcoholic. It is a 12 step program such as A.A., but the philosophy of the program, is to learn how to take care of yourself. Most alcoholics hate it when family members do this. One of the main teachings, for lack of a better word, is to learn to quit enabling. I would be dead today if certain people had not said enough is enough. Al-Anon is to help the enabler get back control of their life. An alcoholic out of control, is like a tornado plowing through a trailer park. That is one of the reasons it"s considered an illness. Most alcoholics are some of the nicest people in the world when their not drinking. Do you really think they want do destroy the lives of their loveones? I don't think so. I hope your son want ever drink alcohol because the chances of him having problems will be a distinct possibility. As I have Qouted in other post, a child with a parent that is alcoholic is more likely to become addicted themselves. In another post, I described how many children of alcoholics learn to hate alcohol only to become addicted to other drugs. Please learn to take care of youself!!!! I don't know the relationship you and your ex-husband have, but if your picking him up from half-way houses, there must at least be a strong emotional bind. I hate to say this continually, but a real alcoholic, will continue to drink until the negatives outweigh the positives. Sadly,sometimes, even all the negatives are not enough. The reason I started this thread, is because most people believe an alcoholic is a bad person trying to get good. He/she is a sick person trying to get well, If they are indeed trying to help themselves.....
I'm not trying to discourage you. There have been many sucess stories. Some through A.A.. some through church, and some whose alcoholism had not progressed to the chronic state on their own. However, the latter, either eventually went back to drinking or were very miserable people. No one jump on me, there is always exceptions to the rule. I'm just giving you my 32 year experience and what I have learned through education......and on both sides of the fence. I hope this somehow helped....... I need to make one other point. I said that the people that quit on their own usally returned to drinking.
However, I have seen People go to A.A. for twenty years religiously, to only relapse and die...... This is a topic many don't understand or just don't care because it does not directly effect their life. I feel sure there is hope for you ex.... I don't mean to pry, but if things continue as they are, I would put my concentration on myself and my son.......

[wolf]

Originally Posted by Brown Thrasher

Most half-way hoses make A.A./N.A. meetings mandatory at leat five times per week. Also, upon arrival from pass(some do not even have passes), they receive a urine drug screen. alcohol will show up in the body for 24 hrs.

Busted.

UDS doesn't test for alcohol. It's in the name. Urine Drug Screen. Different rapid screen kits test for different substances, but a full-blown hospital toxicology dept UDS is much better. Some of the new antidepressants show false positives for things like methamphetamine.

You can test for alcohol via breath test (less reliable) or blood test (preferred, and meets the legal standard for criminal prosecution if the chain of evidence is properly maintained).

The amount of time it takes for alcohol to leave one's system varies based on things like metabolism and whether or not you've already blown your liver, but most people drop at about 0.08/hr. Alcohol does not remain at testable levels in the blood for 24 hours unless you've been doing some serious major drinking.

People in halfway houses without passes still manage to get drunk. Or use. I've heard from quite a few people that there are more drugs in inpatient rehabs than on the street (and that's supposedly a higher security and screening level than a halfway house).

[Brown Thrasher]

Originally Posted by wolf

Busted.

UDS doesn't test for alcohol. It's in the name. Urine Drug Screen. Different rapid screen kits test for different substances, but a full-blown hospital toxicology dept UDS is much better. Some of the new antidepressants show false positives for things like methamphetamine.

You can test for alcohol via breath test (less reliable) or blood test (preferred, and meets the legal standard for criminal prosecution if the chain of evidence is properly maintained).

The amount of time it takes for alcohol to leave one's system varies based on things like metabolism and whether or not you've already blown your liver, but most people drop at about 0.08/hr. Alcohol does not remain at testable levels in the blood for 24 hours unless you've been doing some serious major drinking.

People in halfway houses without passes still manage to get drunk. Or use. I've heard from quite a few people that there are more drugs in inpatient rehabs than on the street (and that's supposedly a higher security and screening level than a halfway house).

Thanks, Wolf I'M glad it was only you who busted me...... At least I'm not in jail this time. It looks like as many uds I have taken and given, I would have not made such a profound error. You are right. Breathalyser, and blood test, are the techniques used with alcohol. Most treatment centers I worked in or happened to be vacationing at tested for Marijuana, cocaine, amphetimine, opiates, and barbituates. However if they/we were suspicious we would have blood taken. As a matter of fact, you are correct in most everything you stated. However, I will have to disagree about their being more drugs in inpatient rehabs. That is a myth, just like there are more drugs in prison than on the streets is a myth.... also there are other things that can cause false positives, such as poopy seed can cause a false positive for opiates, and some cold medicines can cause false positives for amphetemines.