Parenting and teenage relationships

[OnyxCougar]

Hmmm. As far as I know, (meaning from what he's told me), he's still "pure".

That reversible vasectomy thing has promise.... hmmm...

[Lunaephiliac]

Stop worrying about what your son thinks, it doesn't matter. In fact, if he's mad at you, you're probably doing the right thing. I will pray for him, and you.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by Lunaephiliac

Stop worrying about what your son thinks, it doesn't matter. In fact, if he's mad at you, you're probably doing the right thing. I will pray for him, and you.

This is bullshit.

It is critical that your son feels that his thoughts are valued.

If he doesn't feel that way, then you're redundant, useless, powerless. You have no standing with him if he feels he has no standing with you. Think about it.

I am not urging you to strive to learn his point of view and them make him happy--NO. But you can certainly learn what's in his head and then share what's in your head.

Let's face it, you're wiser by far than he is in these matters. He NEEDS your wisdom here. He doesn't need you to make him happy--he has "Marcia" for that for sure. It is possible (have high expectations and let them live up to them) for you two to be mad at each other, or pissed or whatever, and still show mutual respect, like you did when you walked away after he called you dumb, and like he did when he took his (step?)dad's counsel and apologized. This is growth. He can still benefit from your guidance in this high stakes scenario.

But reject him out of hand because you know better (you do) and because you can and you'll likely find that he'll return the favor and seek counsel (physical and emotional) elsewhere. Give him a chance to stay connected to his best source. Stay connected with him.

His being mad at you can not be reliably connected to something good you did for him or something bad. I can piss off my kid with good parental discipline and with being a jerk. Same result. But the kids can tell if they're bein dissed. They're acutely sensitive on this score.

The prayers are legit. That part is not bullshit. You're all in my prayers too.

Hang in there.

[OnyxCougar]

Well, the plans to go to the beach changed, so he's going over to Marcia's house today from 1pm to 8pm (when I'm going over after work and picking him up.) The parentals are going to be there the entire time, so I'm not worried about them "making with the love" today.

I will, however, be having a discussion with them regarding the relationship and making sure they are aware that Marcia and Son are supposed to be "exclusive" now, and see what kind of response I get.

If she's lying and hasn't broken up with Alex, and she's calling him all the time and he's calling her all the time, this should be obvious to the parents that there's an issue here and steps need to be taken.

If I find out that I was lied to (and it was her lying to him, telling him she broke up with Alex when she didn't), then he won't have any communication with her at all other than through ROTC.

If I find out that he's the one that lied to me knowing full well she didn't break up with Alex, then his ass will be going to Louisiana in June with his sister. If I can't trust him he's out of here.

[jaguar]

Holy hell the kid is 17, butt the *hell* out his love life! You can't stop kids doing stuff, you're making it far more likely something is going to happen simply by being so draconian. Parents always present? I thought that crap stopped at about 13. TS has a point, if you really want to do something buy the kid a pack of condoms. kid needs to learn how to judge girls on his own, go though the same stuff we all did, it's the only way you learn what works and what doesn't. Sure she's probably a lieing, cheating bitch and he'll get screwed over and ahve a cry about it but next time, he'll be more careful and have better sense. All you're going to do is up the chances his first sexual encounter is going to be in a public park.

[OnyxCougar]

OK. My parents butted out of my love life at 16, and I ended up pregnant. I will *not* butt the hell out of any part of his life, as long as he lives under my roof, and I'm paying for his school supplies, his food, his deoderant, his toilet paper, his clothes, funding his trips to Virginia for OPTIONAL school trips, OPTIONAL dances, ferrying him to and from all this crap, and all the rest of the shit I'm doing.

When he is out of my house, then he can go fuck any little bitch he wants, and deal with the consequences. UNTIL then, he is a MINOR, he is MY responsibility, and he WILL fall under my authority. If he don't like it, he can move with his father in June (who will not let him date AT ALL) or he can lump it until December when he's 18 and then get the fuck out.

Who is going to have to "deal with it" when he knocks this bitch up? Not only her parents. You've heard right here in the cellar the effects of teen pregnancies. So I suppose it's not going to be my responsibility then? Think again, Jag. Who is the first person he's gonna run to? That's right, that would be me. So until I can tell him that it was completely his choice and his decision, and therefore completely his consequences, I have to continue to act and set down rules like I would for myself, because they aren't just HIS consequences. Yet. His choices right now effect my ENTIRE family.

I will act accordingly.

[jaguar]

You know if theres one thing that causes tension in parent-teenager relationships it's the strange paradox of expecting them to be responsible except for anything they want to do my themselves, do the dishes, clean your room but don't you dare to XYZ without my permission. You know pretty much everyone I knew lost their virginity at or before 16 yet almost noone I know ended up pregnant or getting someone pregnant, the exception that comes to mind was....a catholic girl...with a jock. Contraception, it's a wonderful thing, condom breaks? That's what the morning after pill is for, absolute lifesaver that thing. Sure, in extreme circumstances both could fail but you're more likely to get hit by a bus tomorrow. You can't really stop him fucking who he wants now, all you can do is make it harder and him less willing to communicate things to you. I can imagine living with constant threats of being booted out really helps too. You might not be willing to admit it but it sure sounds like your trying right your mistakes though the poor kid.

You can act as you wish but shit, I was 17 only a few years ago, I remember.

[OnyxCougar]

So was I. In fact, the pregnancy at 16 was him. That was a fucking nightmare, and one I wouldn't want my son or myself to be on either side of again.

I can't force Marcia to take the morning after pill. It's her body and she (and at this point, her parents) can do what they want, even if that's have the baby and then nail my son with child support that he can't pay. Then it falls to me, as his parent, to meet his obligations.

Are you not getting that until he's legally an adult in December that *I* am responsible for his actions? So until it's not my problem any more, don't you think I should be all up in my business?

He's in 10th grade (out of 12), he still has 2 more years of school, he's under age (can't even drink yet) and you're advocating that I let him come (no pun intended) and go as he pleases?

I don't think so.

[OnyxCougar]

Be aware....the only rule I laid down was that they could not see each other one on one at each other's homes until there was a declaration of exclusivity.

I don't think that is an extreme policy.

Meaning, until Marcia decided she was going to be exclusive with my son, she's not coming over and hanging all over him on the couch watching a DVD and feeding him popcorn. That is not the way someone who is supposed to be exclusive with SOMEONE ELSE should be behaving. I don't care if he likes it or not.

Now that they are officially dating (exclusively) it's ok to act like that.

Do you see where I was going with that rule and why this is not a case of controlling his every move? Even if she was still seeing Alex, I didn't care if they talked on MSN, or on the phone, or at parties, or at dances. But while she was dating Alex, she would not be dating my son.

I really don't think that's being overly strict. In fact, I think it's more than fair.

[jaguar]

I'd say it is pretty extreme, you shouldn't really know half of that to start with unless he wanted to tell you. Which I doubt. My parents have practically never known who I was dating except on rare exceptions (special event comes up or it lasts a while), let alone beforehand or any kind of details. I've never known anyone to be quite so worried about the legal implications of getting someone pregnant before. The only people I know that would discuss their private lives in that much detail to their parents are those that have really, really unusually good relationships with them and it'd be more on a friend basis than parent. I doubt the kid is dumb or wants to get someone pregnant and frankly, I doubt she wants to be.

As for exclusivity, what are you going to do if she cheats? Call her parents and complain? What if your boy does? They are young adults, whether your son wants to see someone that is seeing someone else or not should be his choice not yours. If he is getting screwed around you can tell him but really, that's where your responsibility ends. Beyond the getting-people-pregnant thing it really isn't any of your business.

Sometimes it's exclusive from the start, sometimes you date other people as well for a long time, sometimes it's just a fuckaround kind of thing, how he chooses who he spends time with isn't really your affair. What next, you're going to interview his friends? heck lots of kids move into share places at 17, seem to survive and not get anyone pregnant just fine.

Don't let your own crappy experiences mess him around. You seem to be using this whole legal angle as an excuse to moralise your son's love life and protect him from something that really, you can't.

Maybe it's a cultural thing, I don't know.

[Clodfobble]

Worrying about the legal implications of pregnancy could very well be a cultural thing. Does the UK even have mandatory child support guidelines? Here it is very real. Could you afford to pay anywhere from $500 to $1000 a month for the next 18 years, jaguar? Don't forget to add in medical insurance. How about being told you weren't allowed to leave the state, much less the country?

You doubt she wants to be pregnant, when she's frequently fantasizing about naming their children? Not only did I know girls in high school who wanted to be pregnant, I knew girls who lied about taking birth control pills so that they could be.

[jaguar]

Maybe it is, the kind of people I sleep & associate with would rather have rabies than kids at this age.

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by jaguar

his first sexual encounter is going to be in a public park.

Or in a public house.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by jaguar

I'd say it is pretty extreme, you shouldn't really know half of that to start with unless he wanted to tell you. Which I doubt.

He told me all of the information on his own, with no coersion.

My parents have practically never known who I was dating except on rare exceptions (special event comes up or it lasts a while), let alone beforehand or any kind of details.

Then you don't have that kind of relationship with your parents.

I've never known anyone to be quite so worried about the legal implications of getting someone pregnant before. The only people I know that would discuss their private lives in that much detail to their parents are those that have really, really unusually good relationships with them and it'd be more on a friend basis than parent.

He has told me that he likes me better as "cool mom" than as "bitch mom". I would say I function more on a friendship level, until the situation warrants "bitch mom" mode.

I doubt the kid is dumb or wants to get someone pregnant and frankly, I doubt she wants to be.

Let me put it this way. He straight up told me he doesn't care if she's playing him, or cheating on Alex. In my book, that makes him dumb, inexperienced, and horny, or all of the above. Don't rule out the dumb factor.

As for exclusivity, what are you going to do if she cheats? Call her parents and complain? What if your boy does?

That's their business. But if she is cheating on him, she's not welcome in my home. If he's cheating on her, the mistress so to speak isn't welcome in my home. It's still my home. As long as it's my home, I can control who is in it.

They are young adults, whether your son wants to see someone that is seeing someone else or not should be his choice not yours.

It *is* his choice. He's dating her now. All I did was limit one on one personal contact with her UNTIL THEY WERE DATING. If he dumps her today and sees another girl, he can't have her over on a one on one basis until they are dating. There is no hypocrisy or preferential treatment here. He will not act like he's dating someone in my home, or go over to a girls house one on one until he is dating them.

If he is getting screwed around you can tell him but really, that's where your responsibility ends. Beyond the getting-people-pregnant thing it really isn't any of your business.

Where he goes and who comes over *is* my business until I am no longer responsible for his actions. I don't understand why you don't get that.

Sometimes it's exclusive from the start, sometimes you date other people as well for a long time, sometimes it's just a fuckaround kind of thing, how he chooses who he spends time with isn't really your affair. What next, you're going to interview his friends? heck lots of kids move into share places at 17, seem to survive and not get anyone pregnant just fine.

That applied in the UK, where the kids graduate high school and drink at age 16. That's not the way it is here. He's still in high school for 2 more years and still depends on me for everything, in fact, turned down a job last week. Until he's age 18, the law says *I* am responsible for his wellbeing. Period.

Don't let your own crappy experiences mess him around. You seem to be using this whole legal angle as an excuse to moralise your son's love life and protect him from something that really, you can't.

No, he's dating Marcia now, (even tho I don't have any respect for her anymore) and that's fine. Now that they are dating, it's fine with me if they act like they are dating. The conditions for the rule have been met, so I'm back to "cool mom" for now.

Now, again, if I find out I've been lied to, the consequences will be severe, depending on who started the lie. Either way, it's over for that relationship, as long as he still lives with me. Once he's 18 and I'm not responsible for him anymore, I don't care, but as long as he lives in my home, he follows my rules.

Maybe it's a cultural thing, I don't know.

Maybe it's a parental thing.

[wolf]

I don't think that giving your son the message "I can't deal with you, I'm handing you off to someone else again" is effective parenting.