spyware+microsoft=?

cowhead · 05-20-2005, 01:23 PM

I just downloaded the microsoft antispyware program.. anyone else tried it? just kinda worried, after the servicepack 2 debacle. (as it stands I run mozzilla, spybot, adaware pro, sygate firewall and killpop) anyway, just curious.

wolf · 05-20-2005, 02:56 PM

We have the MS Antispyware at work.

It sucks ass. It leaves behind a lot that Ad-aware and Spybot S&D pick up.

We have it because the "computer guy" (who went to college for photojournalism and doesn't even own a home computer and is the "computer guy" because his dead dad was a former adminstrator of the hospital) decided that Ad Aware was causing problems with the computers in our office. Up until this point we had no company provided antispyware software and no firewall.

Happy Monkey · 05-20-2005, 03:25 PM

It probably kept deleting his Bonzi Buddy.

Is this MS Antispyware thing something other than the monthly Windows Update thing?

hot_pastrami · 05-20-2005, 04:43 PM

It is valuable in that it will be installed on many users' machines who otherwise would have no spyware protection whatsoever. A mediocre anti-spyware app that catches 70% of the spyware is better than catching 0% with nothing.

None of the spyware removal apps are perfect though... if you run them one after the other, each will find a few parasites that the previous one missed. I like Ad-Aware myself, but the differences in comparison to Spybot, Spysweeper, etc are marginal.

Beestie · 05-20-2005, 09:45 PM

As usual, Microsoft is a day late and a dollar short. While they can reverse engineer the other apps to "come up with their own," they will never be able to stay as up to date with the definitions as the others.

cowhead · 05-21-2005, 01:22 PM

well... I installed it and ran it.. picked up some stuff adaware and spybot didn't.. so I guess i'll keep it around for a while.. unless it proves to be a problem at some point.

and Microsoft?!?! day late dollar short?!?! what about windows!.. oh wait, apple/macintosh was doing that in the late 80's weren't they.. hmmm.. ah.. fuck bill gates

Carbonated_Brains · 05-23-2005, 09:01 PM

Beestie,

They didn't reverse engineer anything, they bought GIANT Inc. who already had a fully functional and fantastic anti-spyware program.

Microsoft actually has an inherent advantage in spyware removal, since they own the damn Windows source code. They know exactly how spyware programs like CoolWebSearch, lop, and others latch onto the system and resist deletion.

It is true, however, that you can't use any one program. When I removed spyware professionally, I loaded Ad-Aware, Spysweeper, and MS Antispyware. Update them all, boot into Safe Mode, run them in the above order. Then use CWShredder and HijackThis to remove any remnants, and LSPfix to repair your layered service protocol stack.

Didn't find a single piece of spyware that couldn't be removed using the above.

I harp on MS as much as the next guy, but they released a fantastic program this time.

Happy Monkey · 05-23-2005, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carbonated_Brains

Didn't find a single piece of spyware that couldn't be removed using the above.

Well, obviously you didn't find it.

Carbonated_Brains · 05-23-2005, 09:37 PM

Sorry, the creative exclusion I used on customers somehow seeped into my post

headsplice · 05-24-2005, 02:29 PM

Carbonated Brains has it just right. Multi-tiered defense systems go a long way to keeping your systems healthy (yeah, I do this for work too).
+10 Points to CB for being on topic, succinct, and informative.

Carbonated_Brains · 05-24-2005, 04:48 PM

I may lose points for this, but I think it's important to note that I don't leave all these programs running in my system tray, or have them start up when I boot the computer.

I typically just run a scan whenever I get an hour that I don't need the computer, every few days or weeks. Some of those programs will kill your speed.

That's one caveat of MS antispyware...it's a pain to keep it out of your systray.

mrnoodle · 05-25-2005, 11:17 AM

Microsoft makes me want to claw my eyes out. Here's my tale of woe (and it is kind of spyware-related). I have a dial-up internet connection, and MSN is my ISP. Ok that's the first problem, but anyway. MSN 9 has been updated with some ridiculous 30 MB patch that is called "Connection Center" or some such. It has the spyware-finder-thingy in it, as well as some menu stuff. No other value that I can see.

The problem is, I recently deleted my mail.db file because it was somehow interfering with some downloads I was trying to make. Well, when I restarted MSN, it created a new mail.db file, but it was missing my ID tags, etc. No problem, as long as I get connected I can use my mailbox through hotmail (just not through the MSN 9 specific mail client). Fine. However, the new patch requires a pristine mail.db file to hook me up to the internet, and that won't work unless I wipe windows and MSN off my computer and start fresh. I don't want to do that. I want to opt out of the useless patch and keep doing things the way I've been doing them (at least until we get wireless, when I will change ISPs).

The minimum-wage offshore "tech support" people who read their answers from a script say I can't do that, and that my only recourse is to wait for the patch to download, remove the program manually, and then use my computer normally for 4 days until Bill Gates discovers I am patchless and sends (without my permission) another copy of it. This means I'm stuck in a cycle of continually downloading a 30 meg program on a 56k connection, then erasing it so I can get back on the internet the next time. There's no opt-out unless I install an old version of MSN that doesn't trigger the patch update. Of course, installing MSN 7 means that I will constantly be reminded that I don't have MSN 9, which will also slow my "browsing experience".

I'm paying them $25/month for what amounts to spyware that cripples my computer. I guess I could get earthlink or something, but they are even worse, if that's possible. No recourse exists for poor dialup users to simply say "I'm happy with what I have, stop sending me new shit."

When we finally get wireless in my neighborhood, I'm buying Linux, downloading Firefox, and anything that requires ActiveX will simply be avoided.

headsplice · 05-25-2005, 04:56 PM

One option (for this specific problem) would be to use Trillian. It's lightweight and can access MSN, AIM, ICQ, Y!IM, and IRC. Plus it will notify you of mail on at least Y! and Hotmail.

cowhead · 05-25-2005, 08:52 PM

yeah a friend of mine uses that and she swears by it.. me I like keeping programs apart from one another.. less threat that way.. or atleast as I see it.. like keeping an AAAA@AAA.com e-mail addy at the top of each e-mail, so if you get a worm it lets you know but quick that it can't send it to somewhere that doesn't exist etc.

05-20-2005, 01:23 PM	#1
cowhead halve your cake and eat it too. Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Georgia.. by way of Lawrence Kansas Posts: 1,359	spyware+microsoft=? I just downloaded the microsoft antispyware program.. anyone else tried it? just kinda worried, after the servicepack 2 debacle. (as it stands I run mozzilla, spybot, adaware pro, sygate firewall and killpop) anyway, just curious. __________________ no my child.. this is not my desire..I'm digging for fire.

05-20-2005, 02:56 PM	#2
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	We have the MS Antispyware at work. It sucks ass. It leaves behind a lot that Ad-aware and Spybot S&D pick up. We have it because the "computer guy" (who went to college for photojournalism and doesn't even own a home computer and is the "computer guy" because his dead dad was a former adminstrator of the hospital) decided that Ad Aware was causing problems with the computers in our office. Up until this point we had no company provided antispyware software and no firewall. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

05-20-2005, 03:25 PM	#3
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	It probably kept deleting his Bonzi Buddy. Is this MS Antispyware thing something other than the monthly Windows Update thing? __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

05-20-2005, 04:43 PM	#4
hot_pastrami I am meaty Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Posts: 1,119	It is valuable in that it will be installed on many users' machines who otherwise would have no spyware protection whatsoever. A mediocre anti-spyware app that catches 70% of the spyware is better than catching 0% with nothing. None of the spyware removal apps are perfect though... if you run them one after the other, each will find a few parasites that the previous one missed. I like Ad-Aware myself, but the differences in comparison to Spybot, Spysweeper, etc are marginal. __________________ Hot Pastrami!

05-20-2005, 09:45 PM	#5
Beestie -◊\|≡·∙■·∙≡\|◊- Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Parts unknown. Posts: 4,081	As usual, Microsoft is a day late and a dollar short. While they can reverse engineer the other apps to "come up with their own," they will never be able to stay as up to date with the definitions as the others. __________________ ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦

05-21-2005, 01:22 PM	#6
cowhead halve your cake and eat it too. Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Georgia.. by way of Lawrence Kansas Posts: 1,359	well... I installed it and ran it.. picked up some stuff adaware and spybot didn't.. so I guess i'll keep it around for a while.. unless it proves to be a problem at some point. and Microsoft?!?! day late dollar short?!?! what about windows!.. oh wait, apple/macintosh was doing that in the late 80's weren't they.. hmmm.. ah.. fuck bill gates __________________ no my child.. this is not my desire..I'm digging for fire.

05-23-2005, 09:01 PM	#7
Carbonated_Brains Does it show up here when I type? Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Between the smoky layers of a prosciutto sandwich! Posts: 355	Beestie, They didn't reverse engineer anything, they bought GIANT Inc. who already had a fully functional and fantastic anti-spyware program. Microsoft actually has an inherent advantage in spyware removal, since they own the damn Windows source code. They know exactly how spyware programs like CoolWebSearch, lop, and others latch onto the system and resist deletion. It is true, however, that you can't use any one program. When I removed spyware professionally, I loaded Ad-Aware, Spysweeper, and MS Antispyware. Update them all, boot into Safe Mode, run them in the above order. Then use CWShredder and HijackThis to remove any remnants, and LSPfix to repair your layered service protocol stack. Didn't find a single piece of spyware that couldn't be removed using the above. I harp on MS as much as the next guy, but they released a fantastic program this time.

05-23-2005, 09:37 PM	#9
Carbonated_Brains Does it show up here when I type? Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Between the smoky layers of a prosciutto sandwich! Posts: 355	Sorry, the creative exclusion I used on customers somehow seeped into my post

05-24-2005, 02:29 PM	#10
headsplice Relaxed Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 676	Carbonated Brains has it just right. Multi-tiered defense systems go a long way to keeping your systems healthy (yeah, I do this for work too). +10 Points to CB for being on topic, succinct, and informative. __________________ Don't Panic

05-24-2005, 04:48 PM	#11
Carbonated_Brains Does it show up here when I type? Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Between the smoky layers of a prosciutto sandwich! Posts: 355	I may lose points for this, but I think it's important to note that I don't leave all these programs running in my system tray, or have them start up when I boot the computer. I typically just run a scan whenever I get an hour that I don't need the computer, every few days or weeks. Some of those programs will kill your speed. That's one caveat of MS antispyware...it's a pain to keep it out of your systray.

05-25-2005, 11:17 AM	#12
mrnoodle bent Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: under the weather Posts: 2,656	Microsoft makes me want to claw my eyes out. Here's my tale of woe (and it is kind of spyware-related). I have a dial-up internet connection, and MSN is my ISP. Ok that's the first problem, but anyway. MSN 9 has been updated with some ridiculous 30 MB patch that is called "Connection Center" or some such. It has the spyware-finder-thingy in it, as well as some menu stuff. No other value that I can see. The problem is, I recently deleted my mail.db file because it was somehow interfering with some downloads I was trying to make. Well, when I restarted MSN, it created a new mail.db file, but it was missing my ID tags, etc. No problem, as long as I get connected I can use my mailbox through hotmail (just not through the MSN 9 specific mail client). Fine. However, the new patch requires a pristine mail.db file to hook me up to the internet, and that won't work unless I wipe windows and MSN off my computer and start fresh. I don't want to do that. I want to opt out of the useless patch and keep doing things the way I've been doing them (at least until we get wireless, when I will change ISPs). The minimum-wage offshore "tech support" people who read their answers from a script say I can't do that, and that my only recourse is to wait for the patch to download, remove the program manually, and then use my computer normally for 4 days until Bill Gates discovers I am patchless and sends (without my permission) another copy of it. This means I'm stuck in a cycle of continually downloading a 30 meg program on a 56k connection, then erasing it so I can get back on the internet the next time. There's no opt-out unless I install an old version of MSN that doesn't trigger the patch update. Of course, installing MSN 7 means that I will constantly be reminded that I don't have MSN 9, which will also slow my "browsing experience". I'm paying them $25/month for what amounts to spyware that cripples my computer. I guess I could get earthlink or something, but they are even worse, if that's possible. No recourse exists for poor dialup users to simply say "I'm happy with what I have, stop sending me new shit." When we finally get wireless in my neighborhood, I'm buying Linux, downloading Firefox, and anything that requires ActiveX will simply be avoided. __________________ Sìn a nall na cuaranan sin. -- Cha mhór is fheairrde thu iad, tha iad coltach ri cat air a dhathadh

05-25-2005, 04:56 PM	#13
headsplice Relaxed Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 676	One option (for this specific problem) would be to use Trillian. It's lightweight and can access MSN, AIM, ICQ, Y!IM, and IRC. Plus it will notify you of mail on at least Y! and Hotmail. __________________ Don't Panic

05-25-2005, 08:52 PM	#14
cowhead halve your cake and eat it too. Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Georgia.. by way of Lawrence Kansas Posts: 1,359	yeah a friend of mine uses that and she swears by it.. me I like keeping programs apart from one another.. less threat that way.. or atleast as I see it.. like keeping an AAAA@AAA.com e-mail addy at the top of each e-mail, so if you get a worm it lets you know but quick that it can't send it to somewhere that doesn't exist etc. __________________ no my child.. this is not my desire..I'm digging for fire.

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