Hip-hop - Page 2

Guyute · 08-13-2005, 10:58 PM

Anon.,

I hear ya. I cannot figure out the attraction. Bill Cosby has been ranting about this for about a year or two, and he's got even more insight than I do. When did it become cool to have a felony rap sheet at 13, or to think it was cool that someone else did?

The saddest thing I have seen in the last five years is a skinny white kid with his Von Dutch Tee-shirt and Eddie Bauer jeans walking around with a cap turned at some retarded angle on his head. Pa-freakin'-thetic. I never liked Nirvana, but I could almost see the identification between spoiled suburban kids and their angst. But this whole rap nonsense is just toooo out there. I went through several musical phases before settling in the one I am now (I am a major Phishhead), but I can't listen to that rap turd at all. I guess because I have no reason to hate cops or ho's???

Hip-hop itself is just boring- If Mickey Dee's and such are putting this type of music in their ads, I am certainly not going to be influenced, because a Phishhead who hates McDonalds and doesn't buy a gajillion dollars worth of American Eagle garbage each year isn't quite their target market. Plus I don't consider a basketball player with a felony record to be a role model, so their ad dollars are wasted on me.

Sycamore- Rock music can to some degree have lyrics that are "just as fucked up", but the entire genre is not based on the precepts of beating bitches, shooting pigs, fukkin ho's, and generally putting caps in the asses of anyone without the same shitass attitude as yours, whereas rap is... it is sad to see a whole generation throwing their future down the toilet because of this gangsta nonsense.

wolf · 08-13-2005, 11:06 PM

I had one of those stupid little whiggers in my exam room a couple months ago.

He was dissin' and dattin' and shizzlin' and whatever the hell else it is they say rather than speaking English (his parents had complained about this, incidentally) ...

I looked him straight in the eye (not easy, with him wearing his baseball cap like that), and said, "Kid, I don't know how to tell you this, so I'm going to be as straightforward as possible ... YOU'RE WHITE AND YOU'RE FROM THE WEALTHIEST SUBURB IN THIS COUNTY. Sit up straight, get your feet off the furniture and on the floor where they belong, talk normal, and at least the next couple hours will go a hell of a lot better for you."

I'll be damned ... it worked.

The (African) doctor walked in to see him and he did not even make any attempt to call him "My brutha."

Elspode · 08-13-2005, 11:29 PM

Syc, I will admit to finding value in some rap and hip hop, particularly when it is positive, and executed in a musical manner. I find Black Eyed Peas "Where is the Love" to be an elevating piece of music. I love several numbers from Outkast's last album, because the brothers have a real sense of musicality about them, and not just drums and bass and samples and loops.

I'm not a musical tight ass...I just see no reason for people to sell attitude as a product. It gets kids killed. Hell, it gets the "artists" killed.

I'm no racist, either. I just see BS for BS, and am unwilling to attach some social validity to inherently antisocial behaviors and communications. Sly Stone was one fucked up dude, and he ruined his life and wasted his talent, but he made some of the most positive, uplifting and just plain damn *funky* music of the past fifty years. I just played a bunch of Sly and the Family Stone last night, cranked loud, marvelling at what a genius the son of a bitch is. If these other flavas of 'da day are so damn talented, let's see them do something good with their music and words. Let them unite in cooperation instead of divide in threat and bluster.

elSicomoro · 08-14-2005, 12:46 AM

Hip-hop has always been more than the gangsta rap subgenre, Guyute...hip-hop had already been around for almost 20 years when BDP came out with "Criminal Minded." Unfortunately, gangsta rap has been the dominant subgenre of hip-hop for some time...nowhere near what it was in the mid-90s, but still dominant.

Bill Cosby, while making some good points over the past year, needs to get his own house in order before pointing his finger at others any further, IMO.

Ep, if attitude weren't sold, we would have never had punk music...or rock n' roll for that matter. I don't know about you, but I'm glad we have both. I'm not saying it's good to sell it all the time, but sometimes, it's a damned good thing. And it seems like you're painting the entire genre with the same brush (as are other folks in this thread). Would you expect all of the rock genre to unite in cooperation? And would you really want all those artists to do so?

crossfire · 08-15-2005, 10:56 AM

This is my view on hip hop. In terms of rap, while much of it is just commercial sugar-coated lyrics, i do have to recognize some of the artists talent. The most impressive type of lyricism that, in my opinion, is tops every type of music is freestyle. On albums, it could take artists years and years to make one album, which might not be any good. Freestylers, it must take them a split second to come up with lyrics. Yes, the lyrics may be inaccurate, yes anyone can rhyme see with me with pee with bleed, but in most cases, their lyrics are more intricate than that. and they go on for 5 minutes, which even with simple rhymes most people can't do. In my opinion, I love rap.

BigV · 08-15-2005, 11:36 AM

Thank you crossfire. The freestyle sounds cool. Ok, cite, please?

Edit: for clarity, at HM's request

Happy Monkey · 08-15-2005, 11:46 AM

Who are you asking for a cite?

crossfire · 08-15-2005, 02:42 PM

I think this is what you mean,

go to this site

http://ohhla.com/anonymous/swaytech/...anibus.swy.txt

Elspode · 08-15-2005, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sycamore

Ep, if attitude weren't sold, we would have never had punk music...or rock n' roll for that matter.

I was not a big fan of any rock songs which extolled the virtues of killing, either.

Quote:

I don't know about you, but I'm glad we have both. I'm not saying it's good to sell it all the time, but sometimes, it's a damned good thing. And it seems like you're painting the entire genre with the same brush (as are other folks in this thread). Would you expect all of the rock genre to unite in cooperation? And would you really want all those artists to do so?

I thought I distinguished between what I thought was good rap/hip hop and what wasn't. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't gangsta rap outsell the more easy going stuff by about a million to one?

I am in no way suggesting that there should be a ban or other restriction on the offensive stuff. I'm just saying that it sucks, and it would be good for those with the ability to do so to put their talents to more uplifting uses once in awhile. I don't see most rap purveyors and commenting on a social condition or satirizing a laughable segment of society. I see them as promoting the very sociological outrages that they "sing" about. The comparison to Punk is apt on one hand, and sort of misdirected on the other. While I see people doing stupid gangsta stuff everyday, the Anarchy movement never really got going...

Bullitt · 08-15-2005, 03:39 PM

I view hip-hop as a respectable outlet for people who actually rap about worthwhile things like growing up in a hard life, the ghetto, experiences they've been through, love, life, etc. When they start spewing this crap about money hoes diamonds and cars, it just annoys me because its pointless.

FYI I don't listen to rap, just not my thing. But I do respect the talent some of them have.

BigV · 08-15-2005, 04:48 PM

crossfire--that's exactly what I was talking about. Thanks. It was cool, I'd like to hear it (and others performed). For the record, I, too, find very little redeeming entertainment value in performances that are saturated with killing and fucking and bitch this and ho that.

Click.

Next!

elSicomoro · 08-16-2005, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspode

I was not a big fan of any rock songs which extolled the virtues of killing, either.

I love "Cop Killer" by Body Count...too bad such a stink was raised about it. On the bright side, pressings of their debut CD with that song on it fetch big bucks.

Quote:

I thought I distinguished between what I thought was good rap/hip hop and what wasn't. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't gangsta rap outsell the more easy going stuff by about a million to one?

It seemed to me like you were still lumping all hip-hop artists together. My apologies if I was mistaken.

The more I think about it, gangsta rap really isn't what it used to be anymore. You still have folks bragging about their money and women and killing and shit, but a lot of that died after the Tupac and Biggie murders. And it's probably not the biggest selling subgenre anymore, either. But a lot of hip-hop is hard to classify these days: Jay-Z is no school boy, but he wants radio to play his shit. Same with DMX. (I happen to like both artists, though not as much as those I previously mentioned.) Jay-Z sells a shitload of CDs...DMX does too, though nowhere near as many as Jigga. And then there's Eminem...the guy is nuts, but he clearly tells you that it's an act...and you definitely can't call him a gangsta rapper.

Quote:

I am in no way suggesting that there should be a ban or other restriction on the offensive stuff. I'm just saying that it sucks, and it would be good for those with the ability to do so to put their talents to more uplifting uses once in awhile. I don't see most rap purveyors and commenting on a social condition or satirizing a laughable segment of society. I see them as promoting the very sociological outrages that they "sing" about. The comparison to Punk is apt on one hand, and sort of misdirected on the other. While I see people doing stupid gangsta stuff everyday, the Anarchy movement never really got going...

Anarchy is too scary for most folks, but a lot of them like hearing about other bad things...look at the obsession with the Mafia here in the States.

And I have to bring the comparison to rock n' roll back in...the proportion of hip-hop artists putting themselves to "good use" is probably comparable to the proportion of rock artists. Hell, even I laugh at folks like Bono.

eiffelenator · 08-16-2005, 08:36 PM

Hip-hop gets bundled in with (c)rap. Yeah...alot of it can suck, and can be abrasive.
But there is something to be said about the DJ work...lyric work of the rappers, etc.

Not to thread jack...what about all the angst-metal? That sounds terrible to me... (opens door for flames to pour in)

elSicomoro · 08-17-2005, 11:29 AM

I can't stand a lot of the newer stuff. I loved grunge when it first came out...then everyone tried to do it...and still tries to.

Emo-rock gets on my nerves too...and I'm almost irritated with Weezer, except that Rivers Cuomo is a great songwriter and lyricist.

Clodfobble · 08-17-2005, 11:43 AM

"We Are All on Drugs" has to be the stupidest song Weezer has ever done though.

08-13-2005, 10:58 PM	#16
Guyute Gamehenge Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Halifax, NS Posts: 168	Anon., I hear ya. I cannot figure out the attraction. Bill Cosby has been ranting about this for about a year or two, and he's got even more insight than I do. When did it become cool to have a felony rap sheet at 13, or to think it was cool that someone else did? The saddest thing I have seen in the last five years is a skinny white kid with his Von Dutch Tee-shirt and Eddie Bauer jeans walking around with a cap turned at some retarded angle on his head. Pa-freakin'-thetic. I never liked Nirvana, but I could almost see the identification between spoiled suburban kids and their angst. But this whole rap nonsense is just toooo out there. I went through several musical phases before settling in the one I am now (I am a major Phishhead), but I can't listen to that rap turd at all. I guess because I have no reason to hate cops or ho's??? Hip-hop itself is just boring- If Mickey Dee's and such are putting this type of music in their ads, I am certainly not going to be influenced, because a Phishhead who hates McDonalds and doesn't buy a gajillion dollars worth of American Eagle garbage each year isn't quite their target market. Plus I don't consider a basketball player with a felony record to be a role model, so their ad dollars are wasted on me. Sycamore- Rock music can to some degree have lyrics that are "just as fucked up", but the entire genre is not based on the precepts of beating bitches, shooting pigs, fukkin ho's, and generally putting caps in the asses of anyone without the same shitass attitude as yours, whereas rap is... it is sad to see a whole generation throwing their future down the toilet because of this gangsta nonsense. __________________ It's Really Plain and Easy To See, The Family grows like fungus on a tree.

08-13-2005, 11:06 PM	#17
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	I had one of those stupid little whiggers in my exam room a couple months ago. He was dissin' and dattin' and shizzlin' and whatever the hell else it is they say rather than speaking English (his parents had complained about this, incidentally) ... I looked him straight in the eye (not easy, with him wearing his baseball cap like that), and said, "Kid, I don't know how to tell you this, so I'm going to be as straightforward as possible ... YOU'RE WHITE AND YOU'RE FROM THE WEALTHIEST SUBURB IN THIS COUNTY. Sit up straight, get your feet off the furniture and on the floor where they belong, talk normal, and at least the next couple hours will go a hell of a lot better for you." I'll be damned ... it worked. The (African) doctor walked in to see him and he did not even make any attempt to call him "My brutha." __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

08-13-2005, 11:29 PM	#18
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	Syc, I will admit to finding value in some rap and hip hop, particularly when it is positive, and executed in a musical manner. I find Black Eyed Peas "Where is the Love" to be an elevating piece of music. I love several numbers from Outkast's last album, because the brothers have a real sense of musicality about them, and not just drums and bass and samples and loops. I'm not a musical tight ass...I just see no reason for people to sell attitude as a product. It gets kids killed. Hell, it gets the "artists" killed. I'm no racist, either. I just see BS for BS, and am unwilling to attach some social validity to inherently antisocial behaviors and communications. Sly Stone was one fucked up dude, and he ruined his life and wasted his talent, but he made some of the most positive, uplifting and just plain damn funky music of the past fifty years. I just played a bunch of Sly and the Family Stone last night, cranked loud, marvelling at what a genius the son of a bitch is. If these other flavas of 'da day are so damn talented, let's see them do something good with their music and words. Let them unite in cooperation instead of divide in threat and bluster. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog Last edited by Elspode; 08-13-2005 at 11:32 PM.

08-15-2005, 11:36 AM	#21
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	Thank you crossfire. The freestyle sounds cool. Ok, cite, please? Edit: for clarity, at HM's request __________________ Be Just and Fear Not. Last edited by BigV; 08-15-2005 at 11:54 AM.

08-15-2005, 11:46 AM	#22
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	Who are you asking for a cite? __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

08-14-2005, 12:46 AM	#19
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Hip-hop has always been more than the gangsta rap subgenre, Guyute...hip-hop had already been around for almost 20 years when BDP came out with "Criminal Minded." Unfortunately, gangsta rap has been the dominant subgenre of hip-hop for some time...nowhere near what it was in the mid-90s, but still dominant. Bill Cosby, while making some good points over the past year, needs to get his own house in order before pointing his finger at others any further, IMO. Ep, if attitude weren't sold, we would have never had punk music...or rock n' roll for that matter. I don't know about you, but I'm glad we have both. I'm not saying it's good to sell it all the time, but sometimes, it's a damned good thing. And it seems like you're painting the entire genre with the same brush (as are other folks in this thread). Would you expect all of the rock genre to unite in cooperation? And would you really want all those artists to do so?

08-15-2005, 10:56 AM	#20
crossfire The White Rapper Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 233	This is my view on hip hop. In terms of rap, while much of it is just commercial sugar-coated lyrics, i do have to recognize some of the artists talent. The most impressive type of lyricism that, in my opinion, is tops every type of music is freestyle. On albums, it could take artists years and years to make one album, which might not be any good. Freestylers, it must take them a split second to come up with lyrics. Yes, the lyrics may be inaccurate, yes anyone can rhyme see with me with pee with bleed, but in most cases, their lyrics are more intricate than that. and they go on for 5 minutes, which even with simple rhymes most people can't do. In my opinion, I love rap.

08-15-2005, 02:42 PM	#23
crossfire The White Rapper Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 233	I think this is what you mean, go to this site http://ohhla.com/anonymous/swaytech/...anibus.swy.txt

08-15-2005, 03:39 PM	#25
Bullitt This is a fully functional babe lair Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 2,324	I view hip-hop as a respectable outlet for people who actually rap about worthwhile things like growing up in a hard life, the ghetto, experiences they've been through, love, life, etc. When they start spewing this crap about money hoes diamonds and cars, it just annoys me because its pointless. FYI I don't listen to rap, just not my thing. But I do respect the talent some of them have. __________________ Kiss my white Irish ass. Last edited by Bullitt; 08-15-2005 at 03:44 PM.

08-15-2005, 04:48 PM	#26
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	crossfire--that's exactly what I was talking about. Thanks. It was cool, I'd like to hear it (and others performed). For the record, I, too, find very little redeeming entertainment value in performances that are saturated with killing and fucking and bitch this and ho that. Click. Next! __________________ Be Just and Fear Not.

08-16-2005, 08:36 PM	#28
eiffelenator Irrelevant Adulterant Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 43	Hip-hop gets bundled in with (c)rap. Yeah...alot of it can suck, and can be abrasive. But there is something to be said about the DJ work...lyric work of the rappers, etc. Not to thread jack...what about all the angst-metal? That sounds terrible to me... (opens door for flames to pour in)

08-17-2005, 11:29 AM	#29
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	I can't stand a lot of the newer stuff. I loved grunge when it first came out...then everyone tried to do it...and still tries to. Emo-rock gets on my nerves too...and I'm almost irritated with Weezer, except that Rivers Cuomo is a great songwriter and lyricist.

08-17-2005, 11:43 AM	#30
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	"We Are All on Drugs" has to be the stupidest song Weezer has ever done though.

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