Finding the Devil in New Orleans

[chronos]

TW,
One thing I have a bit of an issue with is the complaint that the city has not been engineered to withstand the sort of storm that has hit it now and that it's the fault of the local goverment for not making sure the city could deal with this. This is an easy flaw to target and rail against, but in all honesty what could really be expected?
I've been a consultant for years and I've gone into hundreds of environments where I've been stunned that they still run with how badly they've been engineered and patched together. At first I blamed the management for not authorizing the efforts needed to fix everything. I've since learned that it is so easy to come in after the fact and say how things SHOULD have been done to deal with the current situation. This view doesn't take into account the growth and demands every step along the way. People make the best decisions they can with the information AND funding they have. As they grow to meet larger demands they add things piecemeal which adds to the hodgepodge nature of the environment.
Consider that New Orleans has been around for over 100 years and over that period the population has exploded. The city used to be above water. By the time things got out of hand and the city in jeapordy, it was too expensive and politically impossible to change things. As private citizens we get PISSED at the gov when they tell us we have to sacrifice our personal situation for the greater good. Would you sacrifice your home because the gov said they needed to make a better drainage system? Would you let them double your taxes and put up with 10-15 years of major construction (a la Boston) so that you were better prepared for a 100 or 1000 year storm? If you say yes, I believe you are in the minority. Officials that suggested charging the taxes needed to do what needed to be done wouldn't get elected. We, as american citizens, vote for officials that make our INDIVIDUAL lives better not those that protect the society as a whole at our expense.
As to the people who didn't leave when they should have and COULD have, I hate to say it but they made a choice and had to suffer the consequences. As to those that should have left but COULD NOT, it makes me very very sad and I pray for those that are still alive that they get the help they need.

Just my two cents.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by chronos

As to the people who didn't leave when they should have and COULD have, I hate to say it but they made a choice and had to suffer the consequences.

And then get paid when it's time to sue the City of New Orleans, et al for the levees breaking.

As to those that should have left but COULD NOT, it makes me very very sad and I pray for those that are still alive that they get the help they need.

The only people that COULD NOT are prisoners, people in the hospital, and law enforcement/fire crew, and nurses/doctors, etc who are fully expected to stay.

I don't care if you don't have a car, you can grab a trashbag of clothes and start walking. Where? Anywhere higher than here. North is good. You might not have gotten far, but you wouldn't be at the Superdome.

In addition: this whole thing at the superdome is dumb. You have (picking a number out my ass) 25,000 people at the superdome, waiting for rescue by helicopter. A group of (lets say) 100 people are shooting at the helicopter. Why didn't the 24,900 other people beat the living shit out of them for suspending the evacuation? I'd have a hard time letting some dumbshit shoot at my ride outta here. FUCK THAT!

I think martial law should have been declared yesterday, and I think TW is spot on with his diagnosis of the problem. I think rebuilding New Orleans on the present site is fucking stupid, especially in light of the article's contents, posted in the first few posts.

My company has offices in New Orleans and Pensacola, and affiliates in Baton Rouge. We're all getting together and helping the people who HAD to stay, but those who were non essential were made to evacuate by the company.

I have little sympathy for any who chose to stay, whether they had vehicles or not. A mandatory evacuation order was in place. Why will you pay these people who were stupid enough to stay? When are we going to get tired of paying higher insurance premiums for dumbasses like this???

Oh, you built a $500,000 home on Okracoke Island? The San Andreas? New Orleans? Then you're an idiot to start with, but want insurance? Um....how about... NO! Pay for any damages your dumb damn self, don't expect me and millions of others to pay for YOUR ignorant choices.

*grr*



Edit: "When the Levee Breaks" by Led Zepplin. I hear it's not allowed to be played on the radio. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

[Mr.Anon.E.Mouse]

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

I don't care if you don't have a car, you can grab a trashbag of clothes and start walking. Where? Anywhere higher than here. North is good. You might not have gotten far, but you wouldn't be at the Superdome.

I saw a video clip on the CNN.com website - an interview with a woman who was pissed off:"....We had to walk, literally walk, out of town!" Um, hello?! Sometimes you have to walk, nay, RUN, if you want to save your fucking life! In another interview a different woman described how her boy friend stole a bakery truck. Ok, well, I guess desperate times call for desperate measures, but, it seems, when that truck broke down, her boyfriend's friend beat up another guy driving a semi and they stole THAT one, too!

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

In addition: this whole thing at the superdome is dumb. You have (picking a number out my ass) 25,000 people at the superdome, waiting for rescue by helicopter. A group of (lets say) 100 people are shooting at the helicopter. Why didn't the 24,900 other people beat the living shit out of them for suspending the evacuation? I'd have a hard time letting some dumbshit shoot at my ride outta here. FUCK THAT!

Hear, hear. But then maybe those sensible people were busy stopping the folks sticking up a van full of medical supplies. Oh, wait, no, they weren't.

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

Oh, you built a $500,000 home on Okracoke Island? The San Andreas? New Orleans? Then you're an idiot to start with, but want insurance? Um....how about... NO! Pay for any damages your dumb damn self, don't expect me and millions of others to pay for YOUR ignorant choices.

*grr*

I used to do flood determinations based on ACOE maps for the NFIP. I was blown away by the folks that would build their homes in areas that were clearly designated as not safe to build homes in as a result of tidal flooding. But you know what? The homes would get washed away and FEMA would come in and let them rebuild. Insurance would pay for the new place and Bob's yer uncle, see you again in 20 years.

Is it bad that I'm feeling very little for the victims of this horrible disaster? I mean, I gave every bit of money I could afford to give to the victims of the tsunami last year, I felt horrible for them and, damn, I just don't seem to have any more grief left. Especially for folks shooting at rescue and military helicopters, folks holding up at gun-point medical supply vehicles, folks looting their neighbors...

[tw]

Ted Koppel on Nightline is currently grilling Michael Brown with questions that make me look politically correct. Michael Brown is not answering - instead making excuses. For example, no one is being fed in the SuperDome. Michael Brown had to be confronted with that fact multiple times before he would admit it. It is worse than that bad. FEMA knew that 100,000 people in New Orleans had no means of getting out of town .... and FEMA did nothing.

BTW, Koppel also noted George Jr's statement that no one could have forseen the levees would break. Just anther example of gross administrative mismanagement.

Look at Koppel's eyes. There is an anger in his calm grilling that I have not seen in years. The long list of details in Koppel's grilling exposes another point. Five days after the fact and FEMA is only talking about what they are planning to do - not what is currently underway or ongoing. FEMA still has no plans.

[Elspode]

Try bouncing back and forth between MSNBC and FoxNews.

On MSNBC, people are dead and dying, starving, screaming, abandoned at the Civic Center...

On Fox, people are clean, comfortable, fed, happy and entertained in refugee centers.

Both the Left and the Right have their mouthpieces working, getting out the message they want us to see.

Originally Posted by Elspode

Try bouncing back and forth between MSNBC and FoxNews.

On MSNBC, people are dead and dying, starving, screaming, abandoned at the Civic Center...

On Fox, people are clean, comfortable, fed, happy and entertained in refugee centers.

Both the Left and the Right have their mouthpieces working, getting out the message they want us to see.

From the National Weather Service Forecast I quoted on the other thread before this all came down:

MOST OF THE AREA WILL BE UNINHABITABLE FOR WEEKS...PERHAPS LONGER. AT LEAST ONE HALF OF WELL CONSTRUCTED HOMES WILL HAVE ROOF AND WALL FAILURE...

THE MAJORITY OF INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS WILL BECOME NON FUNCTIONAL.
PARTIAL TO COMPLETE WALL AND ROOF FAILURE IS EXPECTED. ALL WOOD
FRAMED LOW RISING APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL BE DESTROYED. CONCRETE
BLOCK LOW RISE APARTMENTS WILL SUSTAIN MAJOR DAMAGE...INCLUDING SOME WALL AND ROOF FAILURE...

POWER OUTAGES WILL LAST FOR WEEKS...AS MOST POWER POLES WILL BE DOWN AND TRANSFORMERS DESTROYED. WATER SHORTAGES WILL MAKE HUMAN SUFFERING INCREDIBLE BY MODERN STANDARDS...

George Jr today said that no one expected the levees to fail.

In its budget, the Bush administration proposed a significant reduction in funding for southeast Louisiana's chief hurricane protection project. Bush proposed $10.4 million, a sixth of what local officials say they need."

Right, Left, or Center; Fox or MSNBC, what does that tell you about the quality of our leadership?

[Elspode]

I think that our government was at least 36 hours late in their response, and I still think New Orleans is being grotesquely mismanaged. I think a lot of that is leadership failures, both Bush and local/state authorities.

Bush doesn't live in the same world as normal people. He doesn't understand it, because he's never had to participate in it. Therefore, none of this has the same impact on him as it does on us regular folks, who can imagine ourselves in the same predicament as these poor bastards.

The wife and I are going to spend Labor Day weekend assembling a disaster kit. There may be firearms involved.

[Hobbs]

Originally Posted by tw

FEMA knew that 100,000 people in New Orleans had no means of getting out of town .... and FEMA did nothing.

It's FEMAs job to forcast things like this, that's their job, the reason why they exist. However, I don't think that anyone predicted this could be as bad as it is. I think everyone is overwelmed right now. No one knows where to go or who to help first. There are so many fronts to attack, rescue, law enforcement, evacuation, recovery. Someone once told me that in planning for emergency responses for things such as this, that organizations such as the city, county, and/or FEMA puts into place what's called a resonable or acceptable amount of loss. What I think this means is they know they can't save everyone or handle every situation so they concentrate the resources they have into certain areas to be better effective as opposed to spreading the resource thin and not being effective anywhere. I haven't been able to confirm this becuase I heard this second hand a while ago.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Hobbs

It's FEMAs job to forcast things like this, that's their job, the reason why they exist. However, I don't think that anyone predicted this could be as bad as it is.

FEMA had just run an exercise (maybe one year earlier) exactly about a major hurricane swamping New Orleans. That is why FEMA knew up to 100,000 people in New Orleans would have no means to leave the city. FEMA's own studies say that the flooding in New Orleans should have been much worse - faster, more destructive, deadlier. FEMA even claimed to be ready for a disaster that was predicted days in advance.

FEMA claimed they had everything propositioned. They had been authorized days before the hurricane to provide all necessary support. It turns out FEMA has insufficient food to feed the victims. Insufficient warehouse space to accept and distribute the aid. No transportation to help 100,000 leave. FEMA has even abandon victims in the Convention Center. FEMA is not even feeding people in the Superdome. Just another fact that Michael Brown, Director of FEMA preferred to avoid.

Koppel was quite blunt. Koppel said you even bring in flatbed trucks to carry the people out if you must. Micheal Brown refused to respond.

When 10,000 people in the Superdome became 20,000, then FEMA was surprised? FEMAs own studies said up to 100,000 would not be able to leave New Orleans. But then facts don't seem to have relevance to FEMAs response - that they claimed was ready well in advance.

The events in New Orleans are no where near as bad as what FEMAs own studies expected. And yet still FEMA is apparently completely overwhelmed. Knowing they were overwhelmed, FEMA did nothing to request massive assistance from the military and other government agencies until, well .... do you remember the American response to the Tsunami? How many days did it take this administration to finally decide to start aid flowing? In disasters, aid must be moving in hours. Especially when Katrina's attack was forecast so many days in advance - as a category 5 storm. That means leaders must make decisions this minute - not six days later. That means leaders must not be in denial.

Koppel's interview of Michael Brown was telling. FEMA was still in the planning stage five days after the hurricane. People start dying on day three. You could see Ted Koppel seething as he calmly kept asking embarrassing questions. He had to ask some repeatedly because Michael Brown, Director of FEMA, was avoiding most answers.

Any leader who did not predict things would be this bad must have his ass up his ass - be that inverted. A category 5 hurricane striking a bowl only built for category 3 storms? It's a no brainer. Anyone who makes excuses for such leaders must also be in denial.

At what point does a Cellar dweller admit that "85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management"? The devil is in the details in New Orleans - such as a president who says no one expected the levees to be breached. No problem. George Jr is going there personally to fix things - just like he did Iraq?

To think these same people worried about where Clinton's penis had been.

[Elspode]

It is the way that people like Clinton have been using their penises that brought the wrath of God down upon the Sodomites in New Orleans in the first place, doncha know?

I heard an interview on NPR yesterday wherein Carl Castle was interviewing the head of Homeland Security, Michael Chertoff. Although I didn't hear the Brown interview, it sounds like it was pretty similar to the one I heard.

Castle was asking the plain, obvious questions such as "Why is it taking so long to get help there?", and Chertoff *really* was obviously put off, and couldn't come up with even a party-line, pat answer for most of them.

I think these guys were all too busy playing the oil futures market to pay attention to their jobs.