a well regulated militia

Perhaps it's a way of saying "This, in my eyes, is not open to debate."

And perhaps, if you have nothing useful to add to the conversation, you should shut the fuck up.

[juju]

Sorry, just felt like giving you some shit.

[elSicomoro]

Juju, if it helps, I found it insightful.

[MaggieL]

Originally posted by spinningfetus
That isn't the point anyway, you still haven't given me a good reason for these guns to be in the hands of the everyday citizen.

And the "reason" you're looking for is: It's my right to keep and bear arms. It's not your right to decide what arms I should be allowed to have.

Getting into the business of "prove to me you should be allowed to own this particular gun" is one hell of a slippery slope. Our state constitution says my right to keep and bear arms shall not be questioned. It doesn't say "execpt for really nasty things that Spin doesn't like".

Imagine how much freedom of speech would be worth if I had to prove I should be allowed to read each book I wanted to on an individual basis. Or if every privacy right was subject to "Why? You're not hiding anything, are you?"

I think the core of the problem you have is that you live in a state that has taken away your self-defense rights, and now it's all sour-grapes. It was especially aggravating to come down here to PA and have your nose rubbed in it. Don't whine about how hard it is that you "look different"...I look plenty "different". The answer to feeling defenseless isn't to try to disarm everybody else; that just plain doesn't work.

(BTW, "I don't have a system." doen't mean you're incapable of being obnoxious with your car stereo..I can be plenty obnoxious with the stock stereo in my Saturn. )

And for all the huffing horror about what an evil assult weapon of mass distruction this clown was shooting...we seem to have lost track of the fact he didn't actually hurt anybody. Before you snap back with "he could have", I'll point out that the helo pilot could have too.

[BrianR]

Originally posted by spinningfetus
No, not cops. Rednecks, pickups and shotguns. That is what chased me. And as I explained the Beastie Boys weren't that loud cause I don't have a system. That is my point. I LOOK different. Therefore I was a target.

I'd like to hear the whole story here someday. Every time I hear you mention it, I hear a new detail that changes the whole thing.

You know, I love when people bring up the fact that .223 is only a tiny bit bigger than .22, as if those opposed to guns weren't smart enough to figure that out. While at the same time leaving out the fact that the size of the charge is about three times the size of .22. And no it doesn't have the stopping power of an AK 47. Duh. Another secret reveled. But with a trigger assembly that can be bought at nearly any gun show or a remachined firing pin you have a fully automatic rifle. With at least twenty rounds in the clip. That isn't the point anyway, you still haven't given me a good reason for these guns to be in the hands of the everyday citizen.

You know, I love when people opposed to guns get sarcastic. Of course the size of the projectile is only a fraction of an inch larger than a .22. So? What difference does the size of the powder charge make in this argument? None. Nor does stopping power which IMO is an arbitrary rating anyway. Neither of these things defines an "assault weapon". What does is the weapon's appearance. That's why some SKS rifles are banned and some are not. It's appearance and not the actual moving parts.

Here's another secret you don't know: no one who does not posess a valid Class III license issued by the federal government can purchase full-auto conversion kits, parts or assemblies. Including the trigger assembly you claim is available at gun shows. I've never seen one. And I know how to do the conversion and it involves a lot more than the firing pin which, other than needing to be hardened, does not need to be changed at all. The selector, cam and engaging rod (sear) need to be replaced. Also if you're smart you'll replace the barrel bushing which in the AR-15 is nylon with a steel one (found only in the M-16 A1/2) to prevent it's melting and jamming the mechanism.

Don't tell anyone though. You'll destroy the idea that a full-auto conversion can be done by anyone with a file and five minutes.

For information: allow me to quote from the National Firearms Act:

The term "machine gun" means any weapon that shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, [my emphasis] automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts from which a machine gun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under control of a person.


There you have it. And I cannot really find a definition of an "assault rifle" other than that used to describe a rifle, designed for military use, which has a bayonet lug, select fire capability and a detachable magazine. If you can find a better one, please let me know.

Brian

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally posted by spinningfetus
That isn't the point anyway, you still haven't given me a good reason for these guns to be in the hands of the everyday citizen.

How would you like a look at the best reason for civilian assault rifles (or their cheaper-to-feed cousins the semiauto-only versions) that I've ever seen?

Spinningfetus, let me warn you ahead of time: if you don't at least give this material a good looking over, you are not going to know how genocide gets started, or what the ordinary joe can do about it, which turns out to be not only simple, but fun even.Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally posted by dhamsaic
How about this:

Sure, make it difficult to buy an assault rifle. Require that a class be taken. That's fine. But there's really no reason to make it impossible. Why? Because those that want them to commit crime are going to get them anyway. So there's no reason to take it away from those who are not.

Dhamsaic, I don't think "mak[ing] it difficult" is the right idea. For background on why I think that way, I refer you to the Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership. These people have a tremendous, and unrebutted, case -- one that deserves to be heard around the world.

[MaggieL]

Professional fireamrs instructors that I know are, believe it or not, <b>opposed</b> to government-mandated firearms training as a requirement for licencing. In general they find it tends to be ineffective and overpriced.

JFPO has some interesting things to say about the psychological motivations of gun prohibitionists, too.

[headsplice]

Spin,

You still haven't given me a good reason for these guns to be in the hands of the everyday citizen.

Answer:
Because the Bill of Rights says we can.

Counter question:
Why can I not have one?
Have I (not criminals or other hypothetical people) ever done anything wrong to justify you pissing on one of the founding principles of this country?
addendum:
This is a theoretical I. of course you can't answer about me in specific b/c there is the possibility that I am violent in some way and just haven't posted that on these boards.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by MaggieL
Professional fireamrs instructors that I know are, believe it or not, <b>opposed</b> to government-mandated firearms training as a requirement for licencing. In general they find it tends to be ineffective and overpriced.

Government...overpriced...ineffective. Shocking.

Are you going to party like it's [been] 1999 [posts since you joined the Cellar]?

[Tobiasly]

Originally posted by dhamsaic
Are you going to party like it's [been] 1999 [posts since you joined the Cellar]?

Of course, he can't answer that question.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by dhamsaic
Are you going to party like it's [been] 1999 [posts since you joined the Cellar]?

The sky is so purple, there are people running everywhere...

16/F/5'10"/94lbs PM ME!!!

A girl that size would be on her way to supermodelhood.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by headsplice
This is a theoretical I. of course you can't answer about me in specific b/c there is the possibility that I am violent in some way and just haven't posted that on these boards.

I doubt it. You're a hard pacifist that probably lives in a blacked-out room spinning Cat Stevens records all day.

[headsplice]

Originally posted by sycamore
I doubt it. You're a hard pacifist that probably lives in a blacked-out room spinning Cat Stevens records all day.

Actually, I'm a closet speed freak listening to Swedish death metal in my grandma's basement with 26 sun lamps to keep the demons away.

And, for everyone's enightenment, a couple of short descriptions of the Cellar, courtesy of Hunter S. Thompson:

"This place is like the Army: the shark ethic prevails-eat the wounded. In a closed society where everybody's guilty, the only crime is getting caught. In a world of thieves, the only final sin is stupidity."

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride . . . and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mid, well . . . maybe chalk it off to forced consciousness expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."