I need some help

[pumba55]

Originally Posted by fargon

What is the best power supply protection I can get? I'm confused. We live in an apartment so re-wireing is out of the question. when I ask some of the geeks I know I get a dozen different answers. is there a single outlet surge protector I can get, or is the power strip protector better? Some people say that I need an external ground. I need some help I will send you an autographed picture of my self for your help.

Get yourself a small UPS unit. APC is a good brand but any will do. It will protect against any electrical surges and provide enough power for you to properly turnoff your computer...

[maffick]

Well now, I can't understand why everyone dislikes APC so much? At work I have a Silcon that we are replacing with an infrastucture (much more scalable) . Granted, the Silcon is the size of a small shed, and the new infrastucture is 4 full size racks with an 80amp 440 wired directly into it (the building is 3 phase). Now sure this is way more than you need but APC makes very nice conditioning and battery backup in one units for just a single workstation. They range from 60-100$. I highly recommend them, and I wonder why folks are badmouthing them.

the Back-UPS ES 500 for example is 60$ and it *is* also a power conditioner....

[tw]

Originally Posted by maffick

Now sure this is way more than you need but APC makes very nice conditioning and battery backup in one units for just a single workstation. They range from 60-100$. I highly recommend them, and I wonder why folks are badmouthing them.

Oh grandma! What big eyes you have. Oh grandma! What big teeth you have. This is also proof that APC conditions power.

Maffick, did you read the technical response - with numbers - before posting? This is your $60-$100 power conditioner:

Look at an output when UPS is in battery backup mode. That modified sine wave is a 270 volt spike surrounded by 200 volt square waves.

It connects computer directly to AC mains when not in battery backup mode. Where is the conditioning? Is that internal relay a power conditioner? That is what you have claimed. Its called Rush Limbaugh logic. It does not really exist. But the naive will promote it as fact anyway.

A big rack UPS that is properly earthed provides effective transient protection as well as clean UPS power. A plug-in UPS actually creates more transients than it (claims to) suppress. So where is all this power conditioning? I noticed you never once posted numbers - as Rush Limbaugh also avoids. Shame on you for even implying a plug-in APC UPS "conditions" power. Its called promoting myths.

[dar512]

TW - What's the difference between the ground wire in your basic three prong plug and the earthing thing you talk about? If a house is wired correctly, the ground wire does eventually connect up to something stuck in the ground.

[xoxoxoBruce]

TW, I bow to your superior technical knowledge but sometimes I want wring your neck. Get off your high horse and just tell me in plain English.
When I shop for a PC, how do I know what I’m getting? No, I like most people, I’m not building one. So by buying Dell’s most expensive PC, I’m safe?
My APC 500 isn’t protecting my PC from bad shit? My house system is wired properly with the 10’ copper spike to earth. What else do I need?

[tw]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

My APC 500 isn’t protecting my PC from bad shit? My house system is wired properly with the 10’ copper spike to earth. What else do I need?

Your APC does not even claim to protect from the typically destructive transient. They use classic propaganda techniques so that you will assume such protection. The APC UPS does one function - battery backup of data during blackouts and extreme brownouts.

Listed were protectors that can make that 'less than 10 foot' earthing connection. More responsible retailers such as Home Depot (Intermatic) and Lowes (GE and Cutler-Hammer) sell these solutions. Also most electrical supply houses. Never saw an effective protector sold in Radio Shack, Kmart, Sears, Staples, WalMart, Office Max, Best Buy, Circuit City, or Target.

Meanwhile, 'whole house' protectors are so effective and so inexpensive as to be provided, free, by the telephone company in your NID. This, too, will only be as effective as the earth ground 'you' have provided. CATV wire requires (and best has) no surge protector. Protection is provided by a hardwire connection from cable ground block to, again, the common point earth ground.

All incoming utilities (including satellite dish) must enter at the same location to make that 'less than 10 foot' connection. Otherwise a building's earth ground must be enhanced as demonstrated by Cinergy in this figure of wrong, right, and preferred earthing:
http://www.cinergy.com/surge/ttip08.htm

Notice what defines protection: earthing. Pictures demonstrate what Orange County did to correct frequent surge problems - it's all about shunting to earth as Franklin demonstrated in 1752:
http://www.psihq.com/AllCopper.htm

[dar512]

Thanks, tw. At least now I know.

I'm in an older home, though, and that sounds like a lot of electrical work to add after the fact.

[tw]

Originally Posted by dar512

TW - What's the difference between the ground wire in your basic three prong plug and the earthing thing you talk about? If a house is wired correctly, the ground wire does eventually connect up to something stuck in the ground.

Electricity is not same at both ends of a wire. Electricity appears somewhat same at both ends of a wire in some conditions. For human safety, ground on a wall receptacle is same as the safety ground inside a breaker box. But for transistor safety, both ends of this wire are not electrically same. The technical reason is wire impedance; not to be confused with wire resistance.

Destructive surges are not stopped, blocked, or absorbed - despite what plug-in protectors would appear to claim. As Franklin demonstrated, electrical transients must be shunted (redirected, diverted) to earth ground. For Franklin lightning rods, a connection to earth must be short, no splices, no sharp bends, not inside metallic conduit, etc.

Surge protector does same; shunts transients to earth. During a surge, a protector is but a wire. Connection from each AC electric wire to earth ground must be short, no splices, no sharp bends, etc. Protector makes that connection IF protector is properly earthed.

'Whole house' protectors are effective when connected less than 10 feet to earth ground. 'Whole house' protectors from responsible manufacturers such as Square D, Cutler-Hammer, Siemens, Intermatic, Leviton, and GE are installed at the service entrance. Earth ground wire from that mains breaker box to earth must be 'less than 10 feet', no spliced, no sharp bends, not inside conduit, and separated from non-earthing wires. Requirements that both meet and exceed post 1990 National Electrical Code (NEC) requirements.

Note manufacturer names specifically not mentioned: APC, Tripplite, Belkin. Products have no earth ground connection AND they avoid this discussion. Instead, they promote sound bytes and 'word association' as a replacement for good science and the all so critical earth ground.

Return to that equipment ground at a wall receptacle. That equipment ground wire is bundled with other non-earthing wires. It has numerous sharp bends. Too many splice. Far more than 10 feet from the earth ground rod. In short, a wall receptacle equipment ground, obviously, is not an earth ground. No earth ground means no effective protection.