Bush's Shrinking Safety Zone

Originally Posted by tw

The United States spends more money on Iraqi aid then is spent to aid all African nations combined

Every dime the US has sent to Africa has been ripped off by their leaders. It never gets to the people. Are you suggesting we should be sending more?

still Saddam was able to provide Iraqis with more.

More torture, murder, rape, sadism, etc. Zero freedom.

not a good thing that we have saved the Iraqi people from themselves?

So you really think Saddam and his sons reflected the desires of Iraqis?

That our president is a business major who knows how to get things done - in Iraq as in New Orleans?

He got Afghanistan done. He got Saddam done. He'll get NO done (once they can stop the local crooks and politicans from ripping off the levy reconstruction funds as they've all done over the years.)

From the NY Times of 9 Feb 2006:
Virtually every measure of the performance of Iraq's oil, electricity, water and sewerage sectors has fallen below preinvasion values even though $16 billion of American taxpayer money has already been disbursed in the Iraq reconstruction program, several government witnesses said at a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing on Wednesday.

There were probably others who said just the opposite but weren't quoted. At any rate, the rate will continue to improve as democracy kicks in and the radicals, insurgents, etc. are prevented from destroying everything we build for the Iraqis.

[tw]

Originally Posted by HUMBUG

He got Afghanistan done. He got Saddam done. He'll get NO done (once they can stop the local crooks and politicans from ripping off the levy reconstruction funds as they've all done over the years.)

So you actually believe it when he lied about "Mission Accomplished". And when did we get bin Laden? When was Afghanistan fixed?
Some Lie. Others Define a Solution.
In short, already half of Afghanistan has fallen back into 'enemy' hands. Meanwhile, just like in Vietnam, the administration denies all this.

The road between Kandahar and Kabul is slowly becoming much like Vietnam's Highway 1. One town on that highway is Qalat. From The Economist of 9 July 2005:
Understanding terrorism

Do you ignore news in Pakistan where the Pakistani army has been driven from regions adjacent to Afghanistan by the Taliban? How can this be if Afghanistan was solved? Or do you only listen to George Jr's repeatedly distorted and incorrect decrees.

How many Americans died or are missing limbs this week in Iraq because it is "Mission Accomplished"? What did that secret report on military readiness declare - serious degradation everywhere directly traceable to stresses created by Iraq. How can this be if Iraq was solved?

So how many prisoners in Guantanamo are being force fed in a prision where Americans practice torture? Let's see. Saddam took 10 years to kill maybe 200,000 of his people. Americans killed almost 98,000 in but two years. You tell me which is god's chosen people? Saddam was not even a threat to his neighbors. So what did we really accomplish? Saddam was not a threat to Iran - so we had to do it.

Clearly Iraq and Afghanistan have been solved. Therefore we need not illegally wiretap because Iraq and Afghanistan were solved. Therefore the military did not recruit 40% who could not pass their standards tests. Therefore the military over past three months did not lower their standards to meet recruiting quotas. Did George Jr or Rush Limbaugh forget to mention those facts?

Last month, Iraq produced less oil than ever during the entire American occupation. How can this be if Iraq has been solved? Except for one (highly touted) day, Iraq has never produced as much electricity as when Saddam ran things. Iraq is a net importer of oil which is why gasoline prices in Iraq are $4 per gallon. No problem. "Mission Accomplished".

Yes, everything will improve ... as the number of attacks increase every month, economic production has been decreasing everywhere, and where even working sewer and fresh water deliveries are all down and decreasing. But don't worry. Be happy. That proves Iraq will be getting better? Just look at all the Americans now pilfering funds because George Jr spends like a drunken sailor - without any accounting of where money in Iraq is going. Some military personal were even found in Phillippines with another $60,000 that we 'spent' to fix Iraq. Why so much corruption? Just like in Vietnam, when the president lies, then corruption is widespread.

Probably the only thing keeping Iraq out of civil war is American presence - because America is considered a common undesirable element. But no problem. The naive still promote a Rush Limbaugh myth that democracy will solve everything - as it did in Haiti and in South Vietnam. Two other nations where democracy was forced upon a people rather than earned by people who wanted it. Democracy also solved all their problems - as George Jr and Rush Limbaugh decree.

But no problem. Thanks to Bremmer, et al, an insurgency has been created from all those fired policemen and soldiers - in direct violation of military principles even taught in 500 BC. "Mission Accomplished".

Saddam and his sons did isolated evil. Thanks to Americans, now even kiddnapping in Baghdad is something greater than 300 kidnappings per month. This in a country that once had almost no kidnapping - where it was safe to walk the streets when Saddam was in power. This in a country where most kidnappings - well over 300 per month - are not even reported. This in a country where Americans cannot even leave the Green Zones without military escort. Even Vietnam was not this dangerous.

But somehow, this time, we have solved Iraq and Afghanistan. Humbug tells us so. Forget reality. Good Morning, Vietnam - only in a different country. Same mistakes. Same lies.

We have "mission accomplished" longer than it took to build armies from scratch, attack all over the world, and win WWII. Since WWII did not take this long, then Iraq and Afghanistan must be "Mission Accomplished".

TWit said "This in a country where most kidnappings - well over 300 per month - are not even reported."

If they're not even reported, how do we know?

I don't have the patience to parse and reply to your laborious rash of nonsense right now, but offer the above as only one example of your logic.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by HUMBUG

Every dime the US has sent to Africa has been ripped off by their leaders. It never gets to the people. Are you suggesting we should be sending more?

Why don't we compromise and stop doing and subsidizing evil in Africa and the Mid-East? Apparently, American commies and fascists both want an interventionist foreign policy, they just want to destroy lives in different ways. Both of you clowns are getting on my last nerve.

That was very profound Griff.

[tw]

Originally Posted by HUMBUG

TWit said "This in a country where most kidnappings - well over 300 per month - are not even reported.

Maybe if Humbug bothered looking for other interpretations rather than using my handle for insult, then maybe Humbug would have discovered the obvious. It means he might see through lies of a mental midget president - including WMDs. it means he might become too intelligent to believe a mental midget. Instead it is easier to insult.

About 300 kidnapping every month are reported in Baghdad. Other (unreported) kidnappings is estimated as well over 300 meaning that Baghdad probably has much more than 600 kidnappings a month. But don't worry. The president said Baghdad residents like this new lifestyle - even though interviews on the BBC of Iraqi residents say otherwise.

However Iraqis are optimistic. They are looking forward to the day that Americans leave. That will happen when? Not until after the invasion of Iran - according to George Jr intentions. We need those 14+ premanent bases to stage attacks on Iran especially since a critical base in Uzbekistan was lost. Is this too much reality for you? Or are you waiting for Rush to tell you how to think?

Ok Humbug. Here is your oppurtunity to show all that you can respond like an adult. That means no insults AND that means logical thoughts. It is a challenge - like PBS fund raising. Can you do it?

[Aliantha]

Afghanistan is not done. If it were, there wouldn't be any Australian troops there anymore, but there are, so it's not.

BTW...what should the situation be in Afghanistan when it's 'done'?

[tw]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Afghanistan is not done. If it were, there wouldn't be any Australian troops there anymore, but there are, so it's not.

BTW...what should the situation be in Afghanistan when it's 'done'?

Step one. Bin Laden is captured. The president could not even let American military accomplish that. Little is told of massive screw ups in Tora Bora due to micromanagement in the White House. We never even tried to accomplish Step One. Afghanistan was not on a preordained 'Axis of Evil' list.

[Aliantha]

lol

Originally Posted by tw

Maybe if Humbug bothered looking for other interpretations rather than using my handle for insult, then maybe Humbug would have discovered the obvious.

I could have, but that would have been speculation.

It means he might see through lies of a mental midget president

Maybe if TWat bothered looking for other interpretations rather than using Bush for insult, then maybe she would have discovered the obvious.

it means he might become too intelligent to believe a mental midget.

Tsk-tsk.

Instead it is easier to insult.

And more amusing when it's a radical loony.

About 300 kidnapping every month are reported in Baghdad. Other (unreported) kidnappings is (sic) estimated as well over 300 meaning that Baghdad probably has much more than 600 kidnappings a month.

Bullshit.

But don't worry. The president said Baghdad residents like this new lifestyle - even though interviews on the BBC of Iraqi residents say otherwise.

More bullshit. Bush never said they like kidnappings you sick prick. But they did like their first free elections. Many great photos of them flaunting their purple thumbs. The only purple they had on their bodies under Saddddam was from amputations and beatings.

However Iraqis are optimistic. They are looking forward to the day that Americans leave.

As are we all.

That will happen when? Not until after the invasion of Iran - according to George Jr intentions.

There you go again...more mindreader bullshit hyperbole. Just how the fuck do you know his intentions? Tea leaves? Counting spider barks?

We need those 14+ premanent bases to stage attacks on Iran especially since a critical base in Uzbekistan was lost. Is this too much reality for you?

Nope, it's a land grab for luxury resorts.

Or are you waiting for Rush to tell you how to think?

Rush? Never touch the stuff.

Ok Humbug. Here is your oppurtunity (sic) to show all that you can respond like an adult. That means no insults AND that means logical thoughts. It is a challenge - like PBS fund raising. Can you do it?

Sure, infantile Bush-basher. Can you?

Try posting something rational instead of the same old lame radical left crap and you'll get a different response.

[tw]

This could have also been posted in another discussion on this same topic entitled Perverting science for politics where stem cell research, EPA and air quality, logging, Hubble Space Telescope, Union of Concerned Scientists, a Democratic summary About Politics & Science The State of Science Under the Bush Administration (which includes lead in the drinking water is acceptable), science that contradicts Genesis (the bible), hydrogen as a fuel, a silly Man to Mars program, denial of 'over the counter' emergency contraceptives, Philip A. Cooney (a lawyer) who rewrote science papers for the White House, and The White House’s White-Out Problem .

From the NY Times of 16 Feb 2006:

Call for Openness at NASA Adds to Reports of Pressure
Top political appointees in the NASA press office exerted strong pressure during the 2004 presidential campaign to cut the flow of news releases on glaciers, climate, pollution and other earth sciences, public affairs officers at the agency say.

The disclosure comes nearly two weeks after the NASA administrator, Michael D. Griffin, called for "scientific openness" at the agency. In response to that, researchers and public affairs workers at the agency have described in fresh detail how political appointees altered or limited news releases on scientific findings that could have conflicted with administration policies.

Press officers, who were granted anonymity because they said they were still concerned for their jobs despite Dr. Griffin's call for openness, said much of the pressure in late 2004 was placed on Gretchen Cook-Anderson. At the time, Ms. Cook-Anderson was in charge of managing the flow of earth science news at NASA headquarters. ...

In a conference call with colleagues in October 2004, the colleagues said, she said that Glenn Mahone, then the assistant administrator for public affairs, had told her that a planned news conference on fresh readings by a new NASA satellite, Aura, that measures ozone and air pollution, should not take place until after the election. ...

Dr. Griffin announced the review of communications policies after complaints last month by James E. Hansen, the agency's top climate scientist, that political appointees were trying to stop him from speaking out on global warming. After those complaints were reported in The Times, other scientists and press officers came forward with similar stories.

I wonder if the ban extended to papers submitted for publication in professional journals outside NASA's realm of influence? Lot's of nasty implications, if so. And, er, isn't freedom of the press involved here, as well? Bushco's actions come to resemble those of Hitler's pre-war Germany more every day.

[tw]

From The Washington Post of 20 Feb 2006:

Navy Counsel Issued Warning On Torture
The Navy's general counsel warned Pentagon officials two years before the Abu Ghraib prison scandal that circumventing international agreements on torture and detainees' treatment would invite abuse, according to a published report. ...

The July 7, 2004, memo recounted Mora's 2 1/2 -year effort to halt a policy that he feared would authorize cruelty toward terrorism suspects.

IOW torture was an agenda intended at highest levels of government. Torture was considered two years before Abu Ghriad. This must be wrong because we all know those enlisted men brought those dog collars and leashes with them to Iraq. Clearly without officer knowledge since officers are not charged.

A U.N. report issued last week called for the United States to close its prison at Guantanamo Bay. In response, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld rejected accusations of torture or abuse and said the detention facility is well-run.

Rumsfeld is religious. He would not lie. Therefore what does he mean by 'well-run'. Well-run as defined by extremist religious leaders in America who approve of torture?

BTW, Pennsylvania residents get to vote for Sen Rick Santorum - who approved of actions that resulted in torture. He is now trying to distance himself from previous statements - statements made before those pictures from Abu Ghriad arrived. Santorum is a strong leader and representative of religious Republicans and believes in imposing his religious beliefs in American law.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by tw

BTW, Pennsylvania residents get to vote for Sen Rick Santorum - who approved of actions that resulted in torture. He is now trying to distance himself from previous statements - statements made before those pictures from Abu Ghriad arrived. Santorum is a strong leader and representative of religious Republicans and believes in imposing his religious beliefs in American law.

Ummm - I'll be voting AGAINST Rick Sanitarium. That will be regardless of whom he runs against.

[wolf]

If it's that moron Joe Hoeffel, please, think of the Commonwealth and vote for Santorum.