a well regulated militia

[jaguar]

I'm well aware they are. Its also why the British dropped their old standard issue rifle, the muzzle velocity was so high it could get a standard issue round halfway though an engine block. Problem being it didn't do enough damage as one that went though a person as a lower velocity.

I brought up JHP ammo because they are specifically designed to inflict the maximum possible damage to the unfortunate target, and at the kind of distances you're going to be using it in a self-defence situation its most likely going to generate a rather pretty exit wound anyway.

Obviously you've *not* had training with non-lethal weapons. Using them effectively is decidedly *not* easier than firearms, as you assert so casually. Of course "spray and pray" looks simple. But it's unlikely to be effective. If I'm defending myself, it will be with the most effective tools available. Probably *not* one that keeps some meddling pipsqueek in their comfort zone.

You've clearly never seen some unfortunate bastard hit with CS spray in the face. If you have your definition of comfort zone is clearly limited to 'alive'. You have to know how to load a pistol, a clip, zero sights, use a safety, correct stance. Spray canister its point and click, its also harder to miss a cloud than a 9mm wide projectile.

So, having established we act from similar motivations, I just think my methods work better than yours. Passing laws against guns won't disarm criminals. And I don't care to disarm myself just so you can have a false sense of security. Maybe you *should* stay in the Australian victim disarmament zone.

Look i don't give a fuck if you carry a flamethrower, 15 frag grenades and dual 50cal desert eagles when you go to the sops but don't try and tell me i'm some kind of goddamn victim for not. All the arguements I hear thrown about about disarmament apply both ways and the stats are such bullshit on both sides nothing can be proven. I will be staying here, least for now and I'm safe enough here I don't have the inclination to carry any type of weapon (its worth noting police here now carry metal detectors to search people for weapons). When i'm moving though Asia I won't be carrying because it would cause far more problems than it would solve, if i was living somewhere in the US where it was legal to concealed carry i probably would, purely for safety.