Immigration

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by Dagney

Personally, if amnesty is granted to illegals that are currently in the country (which if I recall correctly, is a Felony), I want my own 'get out of jail free' card for my own Felony. Heck, I was born here, that should be my right too.

Well, not exactly correct...it's a misdemeanor the first time someone is arrested and deported, and a felony the second time, unfortunately.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

And if you find a burglar in your living room, it's obviously your fault too; you should have better locks. Puhlease...

Man, I'm getting tired of hearing this. Want to draw the comparison of illegal aliens coming into the US to someone entering your house? Why not try the easy one when discussing this topic: you looked the other way while a house maid entered your property and cleaned your place for pennies a day. Suddenly, after decades of profit and cheating the system, you're calling the cops because this woman keeps doing work for you while taking small amounts of money that you leave for her on the counter. If you wonder why all of these "burglars" are annoyed, it is because we've allowed them to be here, practically invited them here, and based a large portion of our economy on them. Neither party is in the right, but in the end the "illegals" (read: "not the hiring party") will be the ones to pay the price for American greed, not anyone else in the system that encouraged them to be here to begin with and not the law enforcement system that purposely looked the other way.

Originally Posted by MaggieL

I bet the aformentioned house painter does. A bunch of other "American people" do too...like those competing with H1-Bs who are doing another set of "jobs Americans won't do".

Will the aformentioned house painter enjoy painting a house for 1/6th of his normal rate? Maybe not? Maybe he should get used to it. Or maybe the American people would enjoy the dramatic shift if they were suddenly required to pay to keep the profits up for the corporations that thrive on illegal labor?

Next year, and the year after that, and the year following that, I'm sure we can look to the fields and see people picking strawberries for $1.25/hour. If that suddenly changes, you can expect your strawberries to be shipped in from South America and the farm down the street to be plowed under. The US economy is about cheap labor, be it Mexicans picking the fields, H1-Bs coming in to code billing applications for the phone company, or call centers going out to India. If the laws won't permit the labor to be done cheaply and the industry can't sway the lawmakers, you can expect business to find a way. Regardless of how it is done, no one who holds a job currently also done by illegals should expect a miracle fix no matter how this pans out.

[Jordon]

Stirring up racism, trying to make race the central issue, is the game of the ruling classes on both sides of the border. It conveniently diverts attention from the fact that it is the rich who employ the Mexicans, and the Plantation owners who stand to profit the most from an entire underclass of indentured servants for whom they have to pay zero benefits.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

Man, I'm getting tired of hearing this. Want to draw the comparison of illegal aliens coming into the US to someone entering your house?...you looked the other way while a house maid entered your property...

The point I'm making is that the fact that border enforcement isn't perfect doesn't create an easement, invalidate immigration law, and make illegal aliens legal.

Putting scare quotes on "illegal" doesn't make them legal either. This "undocumented" crap is a lame attempt to euphemize.

Originally Posted by Kitsune

... but in the end the "illegals" (read: "not the hiring party") will be the ones to pay the price for American greed....

And the law that passed the House that's being protested so strenuously would make those profiting from employing illegal aliens criminals also.

Originally Posted by Kitsune

Will the aformentioned house painter enjoy painting a house for 1/6th of his normal rate? Maybe not? Maybe he should get used to it.

Maybe he should only have to compete in a fair labor market composed of people who are working legally, rather than being underpriced by illegal labor. Gresham's Law again.

[elSicomoro]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

We do? (let Cubans in if they make it to the US)

Yes...from a January article in the Washington Times:

Under the U.S. government's "wet-foot, dry-foot" policy, Cubans who reach dry land in the United States are usually allowed to remain in the country, while those caught at sea are sent back.

And if you find a burglar in your living room, it's obviously your fault too; you should have better locks. Puhlease...

Apples and oranges. Most of the illegals here are apparently not here for criminal activity. Are you equating illegal immigration with burglary?

It's being proposed to make the borders more secure; a proposal that's meeting a lot of resistance. But making being an illegal alien here less attractive follows the principle of "security in depth".

In theory, yes. But does the proposal really make the US more secure? I don't think so.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I got this email today that I found to be a pretty stupid idea. Maybe I'm just not in the right social circles (read, young, hip, party animal), but I can't see how this would impact much of anything. It reminded me of those stupid "Don't buy gas from xxxx company on Tuesday and they'll cut the price in half" emails I get all the time.

The Easiest Job you'll ever have!

You won't have to take off work .. you won't have to walk for miles .. you won't have to make signs and you'll save money to boot. Be a messenger for America ... we aren't losing it .. politicians are giving it away! BOYCOTT CINCO DE MAYO! Its a Stinko Goodbye-O to the 2006 Cinco De Mayo

You've heard the news stories. Illegal Mexican Immigrants marching in the streets, demanding amnesty and attacking Americans who want to protect our country by sealing its borders. Tell them to go protest and wave their Mexican flags in their own country.
It's the Americans Turn to Protest ... BOYCOTT Cinco De Mayo...

It's one thing to come to this great country looking for better lives, its a whole other issue when these same ILLEGAL immigrants start waving their Mexican flags, demanding that we change our laws and ways to serve them.

If they really don't like what is happening here, they need to go home. They are NOT supposed to be here anyway. They didn't stay home and fight for the things they claim to have a right to here and because they are illegal, they can't fight for American sovereignty -- even if they wanted too!

And so they are protesting against America, trying to force us to change our laws, only to accommodate what they want.

Now it is our turn. There is plenty of time to distribute this e-mail to as many people as you can before May 5th (i.e. a Mexican holiday, known as Cinco de Mayo). This shall be our protest: A call to boycott this "Non-American" holiday that has infiltrated our border, and our cities and towns, along with the ILLEGAL ALIENS who brought it here.

This is your chance to say, we don't want you here marching in our streets, and we don't want your holiday. If you're angry at the growing problem of illegal immigration, if you've had enough of our government's lack of response, and if you are downright fed up with images of marching, protesting illegal Mexicans trying to run our country...then May 5th is your chance to do something.

On May 5th, do not go to restaurants, bars, night clubs, special events, parties or anything remotely associated with this "NON-AMERICAN holiday." This year, say Cinco Deny-O to Cinco de Mayo.

A recent "stupid quote" by the Mayor of Los Angeles: "We cannot criminalize people who are working, people who are contributing to our ec onomy," - Los Angeles Mayor, Antonio Villaraigosa He says, they are not criminals. He says, they are working people who are contributing to our economy. Well, just because their intentions may be good, does not mean they have a right to break our laws. Lets consider these examples:

If you are a good driver with a clean record and you are courteous to others on the road...Is it legal for you to run a red light? No, it is ILLEGAL.


If you are a hard working taxpayer, a charitable family man or woman with no criminal record...Does that give you the right to rob a bank in order to make ends meet...No, it is ILLEGAL.
If you are a Mexican national striving for a better life in America...Do you have the right to ignore the laws of this country, breach its borders, and live and work here while others from all over the world, are legally applying and patiently waiting for their chance to become Americans....NO, it is ILLEGAL.

A duck is a duck and ILLEGAL is ILLEGAL no matter how you look at it. That my friends IS the meaning of IS!

On May 5th ... stay home with your family and friends. This is a message that will eventually trickle on down to all of the foot-dragging politicians who have sat on their hands for decades. You can beat a politician with a four-by-four until your arms ache with little hope of jarring any common sense out of them but, start talking about taking pennies and their cushy jobs away and they wiggle like a snake on a hot plate. Many of you Americans may have never had the opporunity to serve America in the military ... here is your chance to participate in a simple protest towards protecting YOUR countries sovereignty.

One .. send this to every American in your e-book and two, stay home on May 5th.

NOTE TO POLITI CIANS (Democrat, Republican, et al):

Be reminded illegal aliens cant vote you out of office! But, angry Americans can!!

Originally Posted by sycamore

Apples and oranges. Most of the illegals here are apparently not here for criminal activity. Are you equating illegal immigration with burglary?

Of course they are, just being here after getting here the way they did is criminal, working without the proper credentials is criminal, not paying their taxes while working is criminal & a form of burglary, getting paperwork under false pretenses is criminal and it goes on-&-on.

[elSicomoro]

What type of crime would you consider illegal immigration? (white-collar, crime against property, etc.)

Being an illegal immigrant, working while one is fraud... among other things.
Being in the US without a Visa is illegal... it ain't hard.

[elSicomoro]

What ain't hard?

What would you suggest be done with illegals?

The same thing that has always been done with the law, enforce it.
Deport them if they do not comply with the law.
What is not hard are the concepts involved here.
This is a legal issue, you enforce the law for all or none.

[elSicomoro]

US law is never as simple as "all or none." And we don't have enough money to enforce the current laws. That's why there are so many illegals now and why their numbers are growing.

But I just don't see the illegals on the same level as murderers, rapists, burglars, etc...at least, not the ones that aren't committing those types of crimes.

And speeders are not on the same level are murders either... so we should just let that go too?
Where in the hell did you come-up with that argument?

[elSicomoro]

I tend to look at crime from several standpoints, among them severity and circumstance. Illegal immigration is a mild concern to me...it's nothing compared to violent crime or securities issues.

I tend to look at what it does to our economy and keeping poor American citizens poor.