Moussaoui

billybob · 05-04-2006, 05:29 AM

......A no-win situation. Hopefully, the sentence to obscurity in a closed prison for life will achieve something other than martyrdom, but what?

As far as I can tell, he has become a political prisoner, and sooner or later American citizens will be held hostage by people demanding his release.

There's no clear path to justice in this case because he was convicted on the strength of his own evidence, and it was his intention that he be convicted and executed. Only he knows for certain the strength of his links with Al Quaida, and the show trial offered little in the way of evidence to link him to the emotive cockpit voice recordings that were submitted as 'evidence'.

The whole trial and its outcome make little sense to me. I don't think the prosecution had enough evidence, but the overwhelming pressure for a conviction meant that there had to be a trial. The idea that execution could ever be considered on the strength of the mixture of hearsay and self-implication that was offered as evidence does not sit easy with me. Perhaps someone can explain to me exactly what he was proven to have done, and why so many people want him dead.

glatt · 05-04-2006, 07:40 AM

Well, if I recall correctly, he pleaded "Guilty" and the only thing the jury had to decide was life in prison or death penalty. I'm just glad I wasn't called to sit on that jury. Those poor bastards had a couple months of their life put on hold for this case.

I'm even more glad I'm not going to be on the jury for the asshole sniper, John Mohammed. He's already been sentenced to death in Virginia, but now Maryland wants to have its shot at him for one of his murders there. What a boondoggle. I would be so pissed at the prosecution if I got called to be on that jury. What a waste of time and taxpayers money. What are they going to do, put him to death twice?

xoxoxoBruce · 05-04-2006, 04:34 PM

Maybe Maryland is making sure if Virginia screws up and John Mohammed somehow gets to walk, they can nail him. A second conviction would also double the time and cost of appeals for him to beat it.

My opinion....this guy's got to go down.

MaggieL · 05-09-2006, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zacarias Moussaoui

"I had thought I would be sentenced to death based on the emotions and anger toward me for the deaths on Sept. 11. But after reviewing the jury verdict and reading how the jurors set aside their emotions and disgust for me and focused on the law and the evidence ... I now see that it is possible that I can receive a fair trial even with Americans as jurors."

So much for the "show trial".

BigV · 05-10-2006, 10:10 AM

"...So I wish to withdraw my guilty plea and do some other crazy damn thing so you'll all follow your part in the script (see, it says right here) and condemn me to death so that I may be a martyr, and extend my command of empty headlines for another period."

Uh-huh, I'll get right back to you on that.

glatt · 05-12-2006, 10:08 AM

A new article in the Washington Post gives some behind the scenes of the jury deliberations.

Apparently, 11 of the 12 jurors wanted to put him to death, but one lone holdout ended up forcing everyong else to go for life in prison instead. They were not happy.

Ibby · 05-13-2006, 12:59 AM

not quite a "12 Angry Men", but close, eh?

billybob · 05-13-2006, 01:48 AM

No doubt those who screech for the law to be applied 'because it's the law' will be delighted that the principles of law have been respected. If there is no unanimous decision, there can be no more killing.
The 'frustration' felt by the 11 jurors who wanted the death penalty is irrelevant.The law does not require any juror to justify his or her position.

MaggieL · 05-13-2006, 08:42 AM

As much as simple direct application of the threefold law might have called for Moussoui's execution, a higher justice is served by the memetic value of his very public confession that he'd finally learned that--despite what he'd been taught--the game wasn't fixed after all.

billybob · 05-14-2006, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaggieL

As much as simple direct application of the threefold law might have called for Moussoui's execution, a higher justice is served by the memetic value of his very public confession that he'd finally learned that--despite what he'd been taught--the game wasn't fixed after all.

To be of memetic value, his confession would have to be widely available to those who believe Al Quaeda's view of the world, and accepted as the truth by them. Somehow,I don't think the radical elements that are determined to convert Islam into the creed of terrorism will publish Moussaoui's comments, preferring to point out the fact that he is being held incommunicado by the US government, and is therefore unable to verify the statements attributed to him.

MaggieL · 05-14-2006, 08:04 AM

Ya never know.

billybob · 05-14-2006, 08:47 AM

Bear in mind that internet penetration in the Middle East barely averages10% of the population.Iraq boasts 0.2% coverage[when there's electricity and telephone services], and if Israel's 45% is removed from the equation, the region's average wouldn't reach double figures. Also, there's no guarrantee that the online community would accept the information from that site more readily than from an Al Quaeda web sourrce.

MaggieL · 05-14-2006, 09:08 AM

I didn't say it was a master stroke. But the way it went down, it's probably a better outcome than any likely alternative outcome.

He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. (The same principle applies to brains.)

05-04-2006, 05:29 AM	#1
billybob pseudointellectual antipodean omnivore Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 91	Moussaoui ......A no-win situation. Hopefully, the sentence to obscurity in a closed prison for life will achieve something other than martyrdom, but what? As far as I can tell, he has become a political prisoner, and sooner or later American citizens will be held hostage by people demanding his release. There's no clear path to justice in this case because he was convicted on the strength of his own evidence, and it was his intention that he be convicted and executed. Only he knows for certain the strength of his links with Al Quaida, and the show trial offered little in the way of evidence to link him to the emotive cockpit voice recordings that were submitted as 'evidence'. The whole trial and its outcome make little sense to me. I don't think the prosecution had enough evidence, but the overwhelming pressure for a conviction meant that there had to be a trial. The idea that execution could ever be considered on the strength of the mixture of hearsay and self-implication that was offered as evidence does not sit easy with me. Perhaps someone can explain to me exactly what he was proven to have done, and why so many people want him dead. __________________ This movie is invisible on any computer that is running pirated software

05-04-2006, 04:34 PM	#3
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Maybe Maryland is making sure if Virginia screws up and John Mohammed somehow gets to walk, they can nail him. A second conviction would also double the time and cost of appeals for him to beat it. My opinion....this guy's got to go down. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

05-10-2006, 10:10 AM	#5
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	"...So I wish to withdraw my guilty plea and do some other crazy damn thing so you'll all follow your part in the script (see, it says right here) and condemn me to death so that I may be a martyr, and extend my command of empty headlines for another period." Uh-huh, I'll get right back to you on that. __________________ Be Just and Fear Not.

05-13-2006, 01:48 AM	#8
billybob pseudointellectual antipodean omnivore Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 91	No doubt those who screech for the law to be applied 'because it's the law' will be delighted that the principles of law have been respected. If there is no unanimous decision, there can be no more killing. The 'frustration' felt by the 11 jurors who wanted the death penalty is irrelevant.The law does not require any juror to justify his or her position. __________________ This movie is invisible on any computer that is running pirated software

05-13-2006, 08:42 AM	#9
MaggieL in the Hour of Scampering Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Jeffersonville PA (15 mi NW of Philadelphia) Posts: 4,060	As much as simple direct application of the threefold law might have called for Moussoui's execution, a higher justice is served by the memetic value of his very public confession that he'd finally learned that--despite what he'd been taught--the game *wasn't* fixed after all. __________________ "Neither can his Mind be thought to be in Tune,whose words do jarre; nor his reason In frame, whose sentence is preposterous..."

05-04-2006, 07:40 AM	#2
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	Well, if I recall correctly, he pleaded "Guilty" and the only thing the jury had to decide was life in prison or death penalty. I'm just glad I wasn't called to sit on that jury. Those poor bastards had a couple months of their life put on hold for this case. I'm even more glad I'm not going to be on the jury for the asshole sniper, John Mohammed. He's already been sentenced to death in Virginia, but now Maryland wants to have its shot at him for one of his murders there. What a boondoggle. I would be so pissed at the prosecution if I got called to be on that jury. What a waste of time and taxpayers money. What are they going to do, put him to death twice?

05-12-2006, 10:08 AM	#6
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	A new article in the Washington Post gives some behind the scenes of the jury deliberations. Apparently, 11 of the 12 jurors wanted to put him to death, but one lone holdout ended up forcing everyong else to go for life in prison instead. They were not happy.

05-13-2006, 12:59 AM	#7
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	not quite a "12 Angry Men", but close, eh?

05-14-2006, 08:04 AM	#11
MaggieL in the Hour of Scampering Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Jeffersonville PA (15 mi NW of Philadelphia) Posts: 4,060	Ya never know. __________________ "Neither can his Mind be thought to be in Tune,whose words do jarre; nor his reason In frame, whose sentence is preposterous..."

05-14-2006, 08:47 AM	#12
billybob pseudointellectual antipodean omnivore Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 91	Bear in mind that internet penetration in the Middle East barely averages10% of the population.Iraq boasts 0.2% coverage[when there's electricity and telephone services], and if Israel's 45% is removed from the equation, the region's average wouldn't reach double figures. Also, there's no guarrantee that the online community would accept the information from that site more readily than from an Al Quaeda web sourrce. __________________ This movie is invisible on any computer that is running pirated software

05-14-2006, 09:08 AM	#13
MaggieL in the Hour of Scampering Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Jeffersonville PA (15 mi NW of Philadelphia) Posts: 4,060	I didn't say it was a master stroke. But the way it went down, it's probably a better outcome than any likely alternative outcome. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. (The same principle applies to brains.) __________________ "Neither can his Mind be thought to be in Tune,whose words do jarre; nor his reason In frame, whose sentence is preposterous..."

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