Antisocial Personality Disorder

[AlternateGray]

Yeah, no kidding. According to policy, there is no such thing as someone unfit for the army- there're only drill sergeants who fail at their job. Bullshit, if you ask me. Imagine having to pass, by whatever means necessary, some shitbag shmuck, or worse, some kid you know is not going to cut it in his MOS.

As for those with an apparent pre-disposition to violent criminal behavior- I remember reading about a discovery made last year: there was an abnormality found in the brain of repeat violent offenders (serious offenders, not bar-fighters or whatnot). Now here's the thing: you can have the abnormality and have a decent upbringing with no unusual effect. You can have a screwed up upbringing and no abnormality with no unusual effect. If you have both, you are going to be screwed up. Wayne Gayce style. Well, maybe not that bad, but rape, murder, and serious assault are gonna be your hobbies. So essentially, there's a biological disposition, that requires a trigger. How true is it? *Shrugs* Too lazy to google for details and creds right now.

I've got a neurologist in the family, and there's nothing more depressing than listening to a long list of evidence supporting the theory that our "personalities", choices, free will, etc. are all an illusion, just purely the result of chemical reactions and such.
Gotta say, though, I think it's mostly crap. To back that up, I'm going to bring out a reference written by a guy who, as far as I can tell, could be an absolute loon. Wrote a really good book about consciousness and death, though- if you get the time, check it out, it's free and online. No, it's neither religious or Hubbardish. It's called Zen Physics. http://www.daviddarling.info/works/Z...s_front_1.html
If nothing else, it will give you actual answers to questions you've always wondered about, like "What actually happens when you show porn to someone who effectively has two brains, and how does that relate to me?"

Seriously, though, I'm a big fan of the theory that consciousness is its own thing, neither created by nor ending with the mind itself. Your mind may limit or give shape to your consciousness, thus limiting your actions somewhat, but "free will" still exists in varying degrees.

[Griff]

In special education, I run into learned helplessness a lot. These are the kids who have learned that they don't control their surroundings, because care-takers do too much for them. They wait for the world to act on them rather than acting on the world. It is pretty sad and if we let this excuse making nonsense go far enough, we'll have a whole society wired this way.

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by Griff

if we let this excuse making nonsense go far enough, we'll have a whole society wired this way.

We already DO have a society wired this way. I see the wasteland everywhere. My twenty-something nephew lived with me for a few months last year and his complete lack of motivation astounded me. It was so pure it was a thing of beauty.

As for the 'soft addiction'--where do I sign up for one of those? It would be a pleasant change from the hard-core stuff I currently deal in. Does anybody watch A&E's INTERVENTION on Sunday nights? Great show.

[wolf]

Originally Posted by Brianna

Does anybody watch A&E's INTERVENTION on Sunday nights? Great show.

I usually am to busy on weekends to catch TV, but I should probably watch this, if only to see the stupid shit families try to do before they involve me.

(I once read a family's "intervention plan" that had been written by a design engineer and computer programmer. He had plotted the intervention in excrutiating detail, including which chair the intended victim would sit in, how everyone would behave at the family party that was being held beforehand, and how everyone would say goodbye to the victim before said person was, of course, to be hauled off to rehab because they now understood the power and goodness of sobriety. Let's just say it didn't quite come off that way.)

Originally Posted by Brianna

We already DO have a society wired this way. I see the wasteland everywhere. My twenty-something nephew lived with me for a few months last year and his complete lack of motivation astounded me. It was so pure it was a thing of beauty.

As for the 'soft addiction'--where do I sign up for one of those? It would be a pleasant change from the hard-core stuff I currently deal in. Does anybody watch A&E's INTERVENTION on Sunday nights? Great show.

Yes, and what astounds me is how those who are enabling the HELL out of the addicts act like the biggest victims in it all... it is constant.

Geez, the thread from la-la land! I gotta start paying more attention to the Cellar again. OK, listen up folks!

There are definite personality disorders such as narcissistic personality disorder, anti-social personality disorder, etc.

Most psychologists believe that these disorders have more to do with early childhood treatment or mistreatment by the kid's primary care takers. There does seem to be some familial connection with schizophrenia and NPD, etc. Thus, its possible that brain chemistry does dispose some of us to these PD's.

HOWEVER: People with PD's know right from wrong. People who are out and out psychotic may not, but this is not true of someone who is a sociopath or psychopath. They KNOW they are doing wrong and they don't give a rat's ass.

There is no cure for NPD, APD, etc. Why? Because the people who have such disorders don't care and/or are incapable of the introspection required to make the needed changes in behavior.

For someone with a PD, the rest of us are sort of like TV sets or toasters. Do you care if you hurt your toaster's feelings? If your TV tells you to change your wicked ways, will you? NOT HARDLY!

Yeah, its sad that some parents are so twisted that they grow these twisted kids who become twisted adults and continue the cycle. Does that mean I'm going to say, "Poor baby! Mama didn't love you. Go ahead and rape and murder?"

That's a negativisky to that. They KNOW right from wrong. I feel sorry for drill sergeants or anyone Else who has to encounter these individuals. I even feel sorry for people with PD's in a weird way. Does this mean I think they should get a get out of jail free card? Hell no!

Yeah, we all get to play the hand that was dealt us. Some folks have a predisposition to addiction. Many of them can overcome it if they try. Some can't. Too bad. Some of us are neat freaks and some slobs and some of us can't resist buying anything that's on sale. These things are our burden to bear. Some bear their burden better than others.

I'm all for understanding reasons and whys and wherefores. God knows, some folks got dealt miserable hands. But some folks who get dealt all low cards do amazingly well. There's such a thing as spirit and heart and soul and courage.

There's no easy answers. And there's no such thing as predestination or the "devil made me do it" either.

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by Griff

In special education, I run into learned helplessness a lot. These are the kids who have learned that they don't control their surroundings, because care-takers do too much for them. They wait for the world to act on them rather than acting on the world. It is pretty sad and if we let this excuse making nonsense go far enough, we'll have a whole society wired this way.

I too have been working in special education for a good twenty five years. People are resilient and strong. We are automomous but not automations.

We create.As a people we fight against the laws of nature to achieve some incredible things. Simple organisms might have only their biological functions, like the ants and sea urchins. They might not have a thinking choice but people are not bound by the seeming limitaions of mind or body, no matter how imperfect they maybe. They do have a choice regardless of what the body wants to do we can make it do something else to a degree. Sometimes living life by degrees is all some people have. I'd not like that reduced to simple cause and effect without the will involved. That's all I was saying.

[Griff]

Well said. Sure we're acted upon but in the end we choose. I've seen kids over-come learned helplessness, so I think the rest of us can as well.