8 men fined after friend drinks himself to death

[Stormieweather]

How do you "make" someone drink too much? Sit on them and pour it down their throat? If they did that, then yes...the friends are at fault. However, although urging an intoxicated individual to have another drink may be irresponsible, it is ultimately up to the drinker to say no, I've had enough.

A bartender has a different responsibility. He is the source of the alcohol and sells for profit. So rather than attempt to make another sale at the expense of an innocent who may get in the way of the drunk customer, he needs to slow or stop the customer's consumption before they reach dangerous levels.

Stormie

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

How is the bar supposed to know that they are driving? ...Tarot?

To use Tarot to decide whether someone is too impaired to drive or not seems an abuse. I'd go more for mind-meld a la Spock.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Brianna

I'd go more for mind-meld a la Spock.

Mind-meld would cause some impairment in the tender. We could simply screen the alcohol out of his body when we beam him home.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

In the US you can sue the bar that sells you too many drinks if you go out and kill yourself driving after drinking them... so the US law is pretty clear on this kinda' BS.
Personally, I think it is stupid. You are an adult, your actions are your own.

If you kill yourself, how can you sue? My emphasis.

[Tonchi]

Originally Posted by breakingnews

I think he's saying, forget laws, forget in what country this is happening. Whose fault is it?

I'm having a tough time deciding. Ultimately, the guy who died, it was his choice to drink in the first place. He put himself in that situation. But if his 8 friends ganged up on him while he was drunk, they are at fault for pressuring him while he was impaired.

I dunno.

OK, then looking at the event in a purely objective fashion, it was the man's PARENTS who are to blame. They raised him to think he could walk on water, that anything he wanted would be instantly provided, and that he was the center of the universe. He was probably the result of selective birth control, i.e., aborting female fetuses until they got a male, he was probably spoiled by all the relatives on both sides of the family because there are much fewer grandchildren under Chinese policies nowdays, and if any member of his family told him to stop drinking they might have been insulted or even struck by this "Little Emperor", as the Chinese are woefully calling the male children who turn on them. They did not teach him responsibility for his behavior, he paid the price, and now the PARENTS are looking for somebody to blame. Do not weep for those 8 men who lost the stageplay that is called a lawsuit in that country (didn't you see the Richard Gere movie about the legal process in China?). None of those boys will pay anything, THEIR PARENTS, who worship them, will pony up for the disasters caused by THEIR Little Emperors.

[breakingnews]

sorry, quoting spexx:

If you kill yourself, how can you sue? My emphasis.

Your estate - i.e., to whomever your assets are willed, or your next closest kin - can sue.

[breakingnews]

Originally Posted by Tonchi

OK, then looking at the event in a purely objective fashion, it was the man's PARENTS who are to blame. ... None of those boys will pay anything, THEIR PARENTS, who worship them, will pony up for the disasters caused by THEIR Little Emperors.

Ok, sure, if the guy was drinking excessively by his own will, you could argue this way. If this were the case, his friends might have said, "hey, we tried to stop him, but he snuck off in the other room and kept pounding shots." THen you *might* be able to say it was the parents' fault for not teaching him about the dangers of overconsuming alcohol.

But the ruling suggests the friends were in fact coercing him to continue drinking. If he was three sheets to the wind and ready to pass out but his friends kept insisting he drink, they were exerting pressure while he was impaired, i.e. unable to make good judgments. He himself was likely unsure of how much he had already had, as well as unaware of the consequences of consuming more. And when have you ever seen a drunk turn down another drink??

Laws aside, the friends also had a moral interest in protecting his well being. Regardless of knowing "how much he could handle," they should have stopped him from drinking when he began showing signs of extreme intoxication.

And whether he was drinking at someone's house or at a public bar makes no difference: both are considered as providing a venue for the consumption of alcohol. The property/business owner *can* be found liable for incidents resulting from behavior that occured on their property. This is why it's dangerous for parents to allow underagers to drink in their private homes - they're providing a venue AND breaking the law. Because a bar is a commercial business, laws make it easier to sue for liability. I know bars in NYC (unfortunately from personal experience) that won't hesitate to kick you out if you show the slightest sign of intoxication - rough-housing, laughing too loud, unable to count change.

[Spexxvet]

This could have a chilling effect on the "chug, chug, chug" chant.

[Ibby]

"drink a bit! drink a bit! drink a bit!" just doesnt have the same ring to it...

[Tonchi]

Originally Posted by breakingnews

.....the friends also had a moral interest in protecting his well being. Regardless of knowing "how much he could handle," they should have stopped him from drinking when he began showing signs of extreme intoxication.

How many 20-year-old males that you know do not think they are invincible, immortal, and essentially indestructable? Well, in the cities of mainland China like Beijing, where the State only permits one child per family, you are dealing with EIGHT Little Emperors out of control. Nobody is documenting the impaired condition of these so-called friends themselves, they are just the scapegoats. In many Oriental countries, it is considered the RIGHT of the man to get blind stupid drunk any time he feels like it and the family and women cater to him in the process. Slang got to thoroughly enjoy this cultural dynamic while he was in the Philippines. The Chinese judge who slapped these boys with the fine is not going to go home that night and lecture his OWN SON about drinking responsibly and morality.

[Flint]

I've been so drunk I almost died, many times, and I don't blame anybody but me.

[Trilby]

What about the Asian Flush that is supposed to guard these people from this sort of thing? *ponder, ponder*

[Happy Monkey]

My freshman year in college, a frat got kicked off campus when a pledge died of alcohol poisoning at a party. In that situation, though, a frat is probably more analogous to a bar than a group of friends.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Flint

I've been so drunk I almost died, many times, and I don't blame anybody but me.

And you would be right to only blame yourself. That is your perspective. Meanwhile, those who encouraged you to drink would be right to only blame themselves. Again, the world is chock full of perspectives. Even though you rightly consider yourself 100% responsible does not affect them. They must only blame themselves; take their own 100% blame for encouraging you to almost kill yourself.

There is not a 100% blame to be divided up among the guilty. Each person's responsibility is from his own perspective - and applied by those (the law) that apply punishment based only on each person's perspective.

A most powerful force - often stronger than the law - is peer pressure. So powerful that peer pressure is essential for quality in business. Peer pressure can kill just as easily as the actor. Irresponsible use of peer pressure can result in deadly force. There is no excuse for irresponsible use of peer pressure.

Meanwhile you are 100% responsible for drinking too much regardless of peer pressure. Nothing is fair about being responsible.

[Spexxvet]

If your friend Johnny told you you to drink more, would you?