12/2: College freshman learns about dissent

[russotto]

Originally posted by tw


The poster reads "We hang George Bush". That is a federal crime.

Let's have the title and section, tw.

[juju]

Originally posted by tw

<i> The poster reads "We hang George Bush". That is a federal crime. However once inside the apartment (instead of reading it from the street), then read the fine print: "on your every word". The Secret Service agent did exactly what we want the agents to do. Only the paranoid would see a sinister government in this act. They rightly stayed around just to make sure she did not fit the profile of Lee Harvey Oswald and friends. That is what they are suppose to do. That is what federal law demands of the Secret Service.
</i>

Don't you realize that we can't trust the government? The government is a good thing but it's also a necessary evil -- if we give it too much power it will trample all over us. We don't want the Secret Service wandering into our homes and accosting us because we gave our opinion on something. What are we, in Russia?

<i>
It is illegal - a federal crime - to say to anyone that we should shoot or hang the President. Why? In Israel, one man did just that repeatedly - and as a result is now the Prime Minister thereby resulting in the massacre of innocents Jews and Arabs.
</i>

So, speech kills, eh?

I get the feeling that you're saying that it's illegal, and therefore wrong. Is this what you're saying, or are you saying, "it's illegal, and also happens to conincide with morality."?

<i>
There is certain speech that is not free. You cannot (and should not) make threats on a President's life just like you cannot yell fire in a theatre or that your gun in already on the plane. That speech is just not acceptable - or legal.</i>

This is where you and I just disagree. Some speech may be stupid, but I don't think you should be jailed for any of it. I disagree with the KKK, but as long as they're not stringing people up, I am happy for the fact that they can say "Fuck Niggers". <br><br>

Well, my point with the "Fuck Niggers" thing is that the speech may be protected, but that doesn't mean that it's not going to piss off the wrong people, be them gangsters with guns in Brooklyn or Secret Service agents.

The girl can't really complain because it's pretty easy to see how the Secret Service could misread her poster. They're required by law to check that stuff out. No harm, no foul. It's a non-story.

[jtm]

Originally posted by dhamsaic
jokay there buddy. actually. it would be

We Hang






George
W Bush
anted

Nevermind the large picture of him.

The "anted" is smaller than the rest of the text. Period. I guarantee you that there is a point in the distance that the others would catch your attention better.

Look at it again. "anted" is not smaller, just in a differnt font. Also, it shares the W with "W Bush". It's in a different font from Bush but not from the W, and it's bold, to boot, so there's no missing it.

Now. I have a suggestion. Please make this sign and wear it in Brooklyn:



FUCK




NIGGERS
is a racist word.

Lemme know how the African American police officers react.

The more accurate analogy would be to have a sign that says

Fuck





Niggers
is a racist word

As to the reaction, there will be some blacks who are offended. No surprise since there will always be those who chose to see what they want to see, not what is there.

Bullshit it's not smaller. Fire up photoshop, zoom in a few times, place some guides and count the fucking pixels.

Regardless, I still challenge you to make that sign and wear it. The point is, it's easy to see why the Secret Service would investigate such a sign, just as it's easy to see why you'd get your ass stabbed if you wore that sign in Brooklyn.

[serge]

The fun's just getting started.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by tw

This article is silly nonsense because it intentionally ignores obvious facts (ie the fine print) and therefore is probably being hyped by the paranoid.

I just stumbled across this thread when I saw it being read by a spider, and am amazed at the position being taken by tw here. I had to go back and check it a few times. Sure, he makes some sense from a technnical view of the law, but his trust of the federal government is so contrary to his posts of today.

[Flint]

Interesting. I was surprised by this:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

How does it start? It starts like this.

[barefoot serpent]

Originally Posted by glatt

I saw it being read by a spider

damn his eyes!

all 12 of them

[xoxoxoBruce]

The spiders are everywhere.

[tw]

Originally Posted by glatt

I just stumbled across this thread when I saw it being read by a spider, and am amazed at the position being taken by tw here. I had to go back and check it a few times. Sure, he makes some sense from a technnical view of the law, but his trust of the federal government is so contrary to his posts of today.

That SS agent did his job as he is supposed to in a society that is tolerant, legal, and operates in the interest of America. What has changed? Those same people - ie Secret Service agent or Captain of the USS Bataan - are no longer permitted to do their job. 85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management. Was the SS agent then violating any laws or violating principle behind those laws? No.

Today's top management is so vile and corrupt as to need a junior general - Lt General Sanchez - to do Central Command. They could not find a responsible and experienced general to touch it. Federal agents are now ordered to spy on Americans without even a court order. Military personal are ordered to kidnap, murder, and even hide their charges from the International Red Cross.

What has changed? 85% of all problems are directly traceable to top scumbag liars. And so 2,800 good Americans were murdered in Iraq for the glory and legacy of George Jr - who could not even finish his National Guard obligations and lied about that. What has changed? Science is perverted for the glory of that scumbag. Notice how many Americans now think torture is acceptable - who stupidly and with no grasp of reality believe that torture will get useful information. That is what has changed. Look at how many Americans, so much like Brown Shirts, deny a Universal Declaration for Human Rights and deny the Geneva Conventions. You have seen it posted even in The Cellar.

My facts have not changed. My tone has changed. No one ten years ago would have expected me to be posting so acidic. But then nobody expected the Spanish Inquisition. America has moved that much towards Nazistic concepts advocated by Urbane Guerilla and Rush Limbaugh. Even MaggieL is now tolerant and acceptable of such Nazi like attitudes. That is what has changed. 85% of all problems directly traceable to soundbyte liars. America has changed to a land where even religion should be imposed on all other people.

That SS agent was only doing his job. But today, that SS service agent is now ordered to investigate anyone who identifies administration lies about Iraq and who asks questions such as "When do we go after bin Laden". Do you realize how anti-American so many Americans have become?

$8billion to airlines with no strings attached - and Americans did not complain. Massive tariffs to enrich steel companies that are anti-American - and Americans said nothing. Hundreds of billions in government welfare to the drug industry so that they can maintain 40% and 90% higher prices for drugs - and America said nothing. I did not change. America did. American soldiers are given dog collars and leashes to torture prisoners – and then get blamed for doing what top White House management ordered. What changed? Me?

Rkzenrage posters in "Non-Americans are scum - and should be kidnapped" and in other threads would have never been relevant 5 and 10 years ago. Never relevant when Americans were acting as Americans. Those posters are sarcastically and cynically funny because America has changed that much and in that direction. Nazi like attitudes are promoted by Urbane Guerrilla. MaggieL even advocates the destruction of Habeas Corpus. And so many here have no problem with that. Cheney has openly said the White House does not have enough power. In Reagan and Clinton's time, we worried about a weaker White House with too much power. Today many in the Cellar advocate more presidental powers. What has changed? Me? My tone has changed. My position has not.

[xoxoxoBruce]

You forgot the Big Dic.

[Undertoad]

But then nobody expected the Spanish Inquisition.

http://people.csail.mit.edu/paulfitz...sh/script.html

Ximinez: NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again.
[The Inquisition exits]

[OwenKL]

Conductor held over 'terrorism' comment

Tuesday, 4 December, 2001


One of the world's most famous conductors was briefly detained by Swiss police on suspicion of being linked to terrorist activities.

Frenchman Pierre Boulez had his passport confiscated in the town of Basle where he had been conducting at a music festival last month.

The Swiss did that? Oh, wait, look at that dateline, less than three months past 9/11. For that matter, check the dateline on the original story about the college student, NOVEMBER 21, 2001, just over 2 months past 9/11. Everyone was still pretty antsy then.

Still, such activities are not in our public interest. That poster, for example,

She got the poster she displays at an "anti-inauguration" protest in DC.

This was a professionally-prepared, MASS-PRODUCED poster! Distributed in the city where the Secret Service is headquartered! And despite all that's been said about it above, I don't think anyone at the time was seeing it as a threat to Bush, since he's depicted as the one doing the killing, but rather as a seditious and un-American criticism of the personification of the US Government {PBUI}.

(BTW, anyone else notice that the 152 Bush is charged with killing is just 4 more than the 148 Saddam Hussein was charged with killing in Iraq?)
--------------------------------------------------
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

~~Theodore Roosevelt

[glatt]

Originally Posted by tw

......

Sorry, Man. I know I hit a sore spot there. I was just amazed to see the change in your view of the government. I know you haven't changed, and that the government has. Hopefully in a couple weeks the brakes will come on.