The Double-Standard Rant

12-01-2006, 10:26 AM

Most women love to talk a line of shit about the holy importance of “communication” until one tries to have a frank conversation about this little gem.
Suddenly, they really don’t like to talk much… in fact English really is not their first language and you are not coming in very clearly... lots of interference, what was your name again?
Broaching this subject is never easy, most, fairly intelligent ladies can see it coming a mile away and will try one of a few tried-&-true tactics to stay a safe distance away from it (it is similar to that of raw weapons-grade enriched uranium).
Most are variations of brining up some infraction you may, or may not, have had/done ten years ago involving sox and the living room that, now, traumatized her to the point of removing weeks of her life and needs discussing quickly. Other, less intelligent women (though this tactic is not only for them… all find it fun sometimes), will just get pissed, have no logical reason for it and start a fight to avoid it.

So, guys, let’s talk…
How is it that no matter what you say or do to mitigate this, women seem to turn every damn thing in life into a game?
Say “this” then do it, right? That is the way it is.
There is no need for anything else, is there? Anything else is a game, and games are for children.
The big one for me is that women play this game of “I’m not going to tell you what I want, you are supposed to read my mind and just KNOW”.
“If you don’t, you are a bad boyfriend/husband/whatever and you OWE ME”.
Bullshit.
Chicks honestly expect guys to spend energy and time thinking about what they want without imput. Many want to blame Disney, etc, for some kind of “happily ever after” bullshit. NOT! It is just selfish behavior and nothing else. It is a control game and should not be played guys. Once you give into it one time, you are fucked.
My wife still tries this shit and we are in our 17th year. “If you wanted me to do/get that you should have said something” is something she hears fairly often. Then she pouts and I act like I don’t see it while I wait for her to get over it. I am still VERY confused by this.
Ladies, NO ONE can read your mind and NO ONE should ever spend one second trying to.
You are NOT a goddess or princess, you are a partner in a relationship, he is equally as important and special and should be treated as such. The more you try to get treated like you are better than him, the more he is going to fight it. (& should)
The more you treat him the way you want to be treated, the more he will do the same for you… sound familiar?
Know when I treat her like a goddess and princess (which is quite a bit)? When she does not act like a spoiled brat who should have her whims answered before she has them.
There is NEVER a case of “you should have known”.
The worst is when chicks will say something like “no honey, I don’t mind if you do that” then later pitch a fit or pout because he was “supposed to know” that she really did mind and he was supposed to be able to read the fucking alien signals emanating from the psycho chip in her brain.
If they do this guys, don’t even pack your clothes.

Guys are often asked to take meds, get surgery, go to therapy, etc, etc, etc, to be more sensitive lovers, better lovers and deal with the mid-life change in sex-drive that is normal for men so they can continue to please their women on a regular basis and how they like, even though it is perfectly natural to have a lower sex drive after 35-40.
(But, we are assholes if we are not “understanding” of their change of life and would be beheaded if even entertained the thought of asking them to do anything about it in ANY way… hell it is female and therefore of the Goddess and should be celebrated. “Wheeee! An overheated, frigid, crazy-person who is turning into her mother is in my home, how lucky can I get!!!!”… this is really why a lot of guys upgrade younger later in life)
However, when it is time to discuss what day you get your blowjob during the week, you are the biggest asshole in the world. Yup, a world-class Neanderthal! Same thing, but somehow, if we ask for some reciprocal sexual consideration (that does not even require medical intervention) we are the male inquisition!!!

Finally, the listening thing, guys, how many times have you listened to her talk about her feelings for an hour only to have her then be “done”?
She was then “too fragile”, or some other bullshit, to give you the same loving consideration & listen to your feelings and perspective?
Does trying to “pick it up tomorrow” really cut-it?
You know the answer to that.
It is not her needing to communicate, it is emotional battery & a tactic, “I am going to unload on you, giving this only my perspective, emotional validation, and I will be the only one to get closure; while you get to swallow any unresolved feelings and pain in this situation to fester… have a good night”.

There are more examples, but I am sure you get the idea.
My marriage is a great one and I am very happy in it, especially since I am an asshole about this and have no Male Guilt.
I do not feel it is any harder to be a woman in a relationship than it is to be a man & do not treat the relationship in that way, ever. We are equals.
If someone chooses to communicate in a difficult manner it is because they are hiding something or they are confused, either way it is not my fault and I am not going to own it unless it is me.
I will bring it to their attention, after that I wait, my conscience clear.
My wife is awesome about saying “yup, I was playing games and it was stupid. I should have just told you what I wanted”. It is a HUGE part of why I fell for her and love her more every day. She is the only woman I have ever met that plays games as little as she does and the only one I have ever met that admits it when she does.
I am amazingly lucky and try to deserve it every day! I suck at it, but I work.

I am not saying this is all relationships are made-up of, or that all have all of this all, or even any of the time… but these are common and a pervasive double-standard does exist.
If a women does deem to discuss it, which is rare, most try to pull some kind of Male Guilt crap as the reasoning.
Yes, yes, it is very hard to be a woman & that has nothing to do with this.
Men have no reason to feel guilty about being pissed about this double-standard when it is evident and have no reason for putting-up with it.
Rant over(ish).

glatt · 12-01-2006, 10:36 AM

Wow, that was a rant.

For the most part, I agree. Games are dumb. Communication is the key to a good relationship. Communication takes two.

Flint · 12-01-2006, 10:39 AM

I always call bullshit, and have it called on me. My wife and I are kooks, but quickly resolve things and move on. No time for illogic.

12-01-2006, 10:41 AM

Good on ya' Flint!!! More need to join tha' brotherhood!

Flint · 12-01-2006, 10:44 AM

Among the things my father taught me, I hold highly that one should never tolerate bullshit, or go into management.

Shawnee123 · 12-01-2006, 10:44 AM

I am a woman, and I agree for the most part, too.

I hate games, and I don't think anyone should have to try to read my mind. I do not nag if I don't get the desired result because I was lax in expressing my wants.

I consider myself the anti-nag. There is a lot of talk in other threads about nice guys being dismissed or taken advantage of by women, but that road goes both ways.

There is a happy medium between constantly trying to pull your partner's teeth (so to speak) and namby-pambily going along with everything.

I have a deep-seated disrespect for anyone who plays games. It's so unnecessary. With all my faults, I am what I am, nothing more nothing less.

I like this thread for the chance to talk about the game players in all our lives.

Others?

12-01-2006, 10:49 AM

Good on ya' too!!!
BTW, I have my games (we all do) and love the fact that she calls me on it when I do slip-up. I hate them and want to do all I can to eliminate them from my life, all the help I can get from those who love me is MOST welcome.

Flint · 12-01-2006, 10:52 AM

A metaphor for games: when games are being played, and the ball gets tossed to me, I just stand there and let it hit me, and fall to the ground. Then, I don't even look at it, and I just walk off. Whatever somebody else wants to do with that ball is not my concern.

Ellsworth Toohey: Why don't you tell me what you think of me.
>>>>>>>Howard Roark: But I don't think of you.

More aggressive game-players, that can't be avoided, get the "judo" treatment. Their own momentum becomes harmful to themselves.

12-01-2006, 10:56 AM

I think of it more like they make-up their own rules so they are the only ones that "win" and they think that they can keep everyone playing with them and not walking-off leaving them all alone.
Unfortunately, this seems to be the case for reasons that are really baffling me.

dar512 · 12-01-2006, 11:16 AM

I have never been willing to play any of those games. It's cost me a few relationships - none that I mourn over.

12-01-2006, 11:20 AM

Now THAT is full-on crazy. That someone would let you leave them instead of just saying what they mean.

Flint · 12-01-2006, 11:22 AM

If you can't say it in a way that makes sense, then it doesn't make sense.

12-01-2006, 11:23 AM

True dat'! Unless you are three and very tired... that is a language I do NOT want to learn.

Shawnee123 · 12-01-2006, 11:36 AM

I know that I am not perfect, but don't play games on purpose. I too like being called on it when I am being unreasonable. Not in a "you stupid bitch" kind of way (ah, memories) but in a "oh COME ON!" kind of way.

I'd say you guys have very lucky wives/sig others.

12-01-2006, 11:38 AM

I never call anyone stupid, heard that my whole life.
I will call "bitch" in a very reasonable way if it is the third time or so that I have pointed the game out, as in... "you are starting to be a bitch about this, any idea why?"
Thanks for the compliment, that was very kind of you! You seem cool as well.

12-01-2006, 10:26 AM	#1
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	The Double-Standard Rant Most women love to talk a line of shit about the holy importance of “communication” until one tries to have a frank conversation about this little gem. Suddenly, they really don’t like to talk much… in fact English really is not their first language and you are not coming in very clearly... lots of interference, what was your name again? Broaching this subject is never easy, most, fairly intelligent ladies can see it coming a mile away and will try one of a few tried-&-true tactics to stay a safe distance away from it (it is similar to that of raw weapons-grade enriched uranium). Most are variations of brining up some infraction you may, or may not, have had/done ten years ago involving sox and the living room that, now, traumatized her to the point of removing weeks of her life and needs discussing quickly. Other, less intelligent women (though this tactic is not only for them… all find it fun sometimes), will just get pissed, have no logical reason for it and start a fight to avoid it. So, guys, let’s talk… How is it that no matter what you say or do to mitigate this, women seem to turn every damn thing in life into a game? Say “this” then do it, right? That is the way it is. There is no need for anything else, is there? Anything else is a game, and games are for children. The big one for me is that women play this game of “I’m not going to tell you what I want, you are supposed to read my mind and just KNOW”. “If you don’t, you are a bad boyfriend/husband/whatever and you OWE ME”. *Bullshit.* Chicks honestly expect guys to spend energy and time thinking about what they want without imput. Many want to blame Disney, etc, for some kind of “happily ever after” bullshit. NOT! It is just selfish behavior and nothing else. It is a control game and should not be played guys. Once you give into it one time, you are fucked. My wife still tries this shit and we are in our 17th year. “If you wanted me to do/get that you should have said something” is something she hears fairly often. Then she pouts and I act like I don’t see it while I wait for her to get over it. I am still VERY confused by this. Ladies, NO ONE can read your mind and NO ONE should ever spend one second trying to. You are NOT a goddess or princess, you are a partner in a relationship, he is equally as important and special and should be treated as such. The more you try to get treated like you are better than him, the more he is going to fight it. (& should) The more you treat him the way you want to be treated, the more he will do the same for you… sound familiar? Know when I treat her like a goddess and princess (which is quite a bit)? When she does not act like a spoiled brat who should have her whims answered before she has them. There is NEVER a case of “you should have known”. The worst is when chicks will say something like “no honey, I don’t mind if you do that” then later pitch a fit or pout because he was “supposed to know” that she really did mind and he was supposed to be able to read the fucking alien signals emanating from the psycho chip in her brain. If they do this guys, don’t even pack your clothes. Guys are often asked to take meds, get surgery, go to therapy, etc, etc, etc, to be more sensitive lovers, better lovers and deal with the mid-life change in sex-drive that is normal for men so they can continue to please their women on a regular basis and how they like, even though it is perfectly natural to have a lower sex drive after 35-40. (But, we are assholes if we are not “understanding” of their change of life and would be beheaded if even entertained the thought of asking them to do anything about it in ANY way… hell it is female and therefore of the Goddess and should be celebrated. “Wheeee! An overheated, frigid, crazy-person who is turning into her mother is in my home, how lucky can I get!!!!”… this is really why a lot of guys upgrade younger later in life) However, when it is time to discuss what day you get your blowjob during the week, you are the biggest asshole in the world. Yup, a world-class Neanderthal! Same thing, but somehow, if we ask for some reciprocal sexual consideration (that does not even require medical intervention) we are the male inquisition!!! Finally, the listening thing, guys, how many times have you listened to her talk about her feelings for an hour only to have her then be “done”? She was then “too fragile”, or some other bullshit, to give you the same loving consideration & listen to your feelings and perspective? Does trying to “pick it up tomorrow” really cut-it? You know the answer to that. It is not her needing to communicate, it is emotional battery & a tactic, “I am going to unload on you, giving this only my perspective, emotional validation, and I will be the only one to get closure; while you get to swallow any unresolved feelings and pain in this situation to fester… have a good night”. There are more examples, but I am sure you get the idea. My marriage is a great one and I am very happy in it, especially since I am an asshole about this and have *no Male Guilt. I do not* feel it is any harder to be a woman in a relationship than it is to be a man & do not treat the relationship in that way, ever. We are equals. If someone chooses to communicate in a difficult manner it is because they are hiding something or they are confused, either way it is not my fault and I am not going to own it unless it is me. I will bring it to their attention, after that I wait, my conscience clear. My wife is awesome about saying “yup, I was playing games and it was stupid. I should have just told you what I wanted”. It is a HUGE part of why I fell for her and love her more every day. She is the only woman I have ever met that plays games as little as she does and the only one I have ever met that admits it when she does. I am amazingly lucky and try to deserve it every day! I suck at it, but I work. I am not saying this is all relationships are made-up of, or that all have all of this all, or even any of the time… but these are common and a pervasive double-standard does exist. If a women does deem to discuss it, which is rare, most try to pull some kind of Male Guilt crap as the reasoning. Yes, yes, it is very hard to be a woman & that has nothing to do with this. Men have no reason to feel guilty about being pissed about this double-standard when it is evident and have no reason for putting-up with it. Rant over(ish).

12-01-2006, 10:39 AM	#3
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	I always call bullshit, and have it called on me. My wife and I are kooks, but quickly resolve things and move on. No time for illogic. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

12-01-2006, 10:44 AM	#5
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	Among the things my father taught me, I hold highly that one should never tolerate bullshit, or go into management. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

12-01-2006, 10:44 AM	#6
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	I am a woman, and I agree for the most part, too. I hate games, and I don't think anyone should have to try to read my mind. I do not nag if I don't get the desired result because I was lax in expressing my wants. I consider myself the anti-nag. There is a lot of talk in other threads about nice guys being dismissed or taken advantage of by women, but that road goes both ways. There is a happy medium between constantly trying to pull your partner's teeth (so to speak) and namby-pambily going along with everything. I have a deep-seated disrespect for anyone who plays games. It's so unnecessary. With all my faults, I am what I am, nothing more nothing less. I like this thread for the chance to talk about the game players in all our lives. Others? __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

12-01-2006, 10:52 AM	#8
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	A metaphor for games: when games are being played, and the ball gets tossed to me, I just stand there and let it hit me, and fall to the ground. Then, I don't even look at it, and I just walk off. Whatever somebody else wants to do with that ball is not my concern. Ellsworth Toohey: Why don't you tell me what you think of me. >>>>>>>Howard Roark: But I don't think of you. More aggressive game-players, that can't be avoided, get the "judo" treatment. Their own momentum becomes harmful to themselves. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

12-01-2006, 10:36 AM	#2
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	Wow, that was a rant. For the most part, I agree. Games are dumb. Communication is the key to a good relationship. Communication takes two.

12-01-2006, 10:41 AM	#4
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	Good on ya' Flint!!! More need to join tha' brotherhood!

12-01-2006, 10:49 AM	#7
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	Good on ya' too!!! BTW, I have my games (we all do) and love the fact that she calls me on it when I do slip-up. I hate them and want to do all I can to eliminate them from my life, all the help I can get from those who love me is MOST welcome.

12-01-2006, 10:56 AM	#9
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	I think of it more like they make-up their own rules so they are the only ones that "win" and they think that they can keep everyone playing with them and not walking-off leaving them all alone. Unfortunately, this seems to be the case for reasons that are really baffling me.

12-01-2006, 11:16 AM	#10
dar512 dar512 is now Pete Zicato Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago suburb Posts: 4,968	I have never been willing to play any of those games. It's cost me a few relationships - none that I mourn over. __________________ "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain." -- Friedrich Schiller

12-01-2006, 11:20 AM	#11
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	Now THAT is full-on crazy. That someone would let you leave them instead of just saying what they mean.

12-01-2006, 11:22 AM	#12
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	If you can't say it in a way that makes sense, then it doesn't make sense. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

12-01-2006, 11:23 AM	#13
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	True dat'! Unless you are three and very tired... that is a language I do NOT want to learn.

12-01-2006, 11:36 AM	#14
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	I know that I am not perfect, but don't play games on purpose. I too like being called on it when I am being unreasonable. Not in a "you stupid bitch" kind of way (ah, memories) but in a "oh COME ON!" kind of way. I'd say you guys have very lucky wives/sig others. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

12-01-2006, 11:38 AM	#15
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	I never call anyone stupid, heard that my whole life. I will call "bitch" in a very reasonable way if it is the third time or so that I have pointed the game out, as in... "you are starting to be a bitch about this, any idea why?" Thanks for the compliment, that was very kind of you! You seem cool as well.

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