Does this mean we have to invade them, too?

[Ibby]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16531987/

U.S. airstrike targets al-Qaida in Somalia
Reports of casualties; targets said to be 1998 embassy bombing suspects
Updated: 3:22 a.m. ET Jan. 9, 2007

WASHINGTON - A U.S. airstrike in Somalia that targeted an al-Qaida cell wanted for two 1998 U.S. embassy bombings killed large numbers of Islamic extremists, government officials said Tuesday.

The attacks, by a heavily armed AC-130 gunship, came after the terror suspects were spotted hiding on a remote island on the southern tip of Somalia, close to the Kenyan border, Somali officials said.

"The U.S. were trying to kill the al-Qaida terrorists who carried out the bomb attacks on their embassies in Kenya and Tanzania," Deputy Prime Minister Hussein Aideed told The Associated Press. "They have our full support for the attacks."
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It is the first overt military action by the U.S. in Somalia since the 1990s and the legacy of a botched intervention, known as "Black Hawk Down", that left 18 U.S. servicemen dead.

"The strike was carried out after it had been confirmed that al-Qaida members are hiding there in the area," government spokesman Abdirahman Dinari said.

"We don't know how many people were killed in the attack but we understand there were a lot of casualties," he said. "Most were Islamic fighters."

Witnesses said at least four civilians were killed in the attack, including a small boy. The claims could not be independently verified.

"My 4-year-old boy was killed in the strike," Mohamed Mahmud Burale told the AP by telephone. "The plane was firing at other areas in Ras Kamboni. We could see smoke from the area. We also heard 14 massive explosions."

Islamists dislodged from strongholds
The U.S. airstrike comes 16 days after Ethiopia forces invaded Somalia to prevent an Islamic movement ousting the weak, internationally recognized government from its lone stronghold in the west of the country. The U.S. and Ethiopia both accuse the Islamic group of harboring extremists, among them al-Qaida suspects.

Ethiopian troops, tanks and warplanes took just 10 days to drive the Islamic group from the capital, Mogadishu, and other key towns.

Meanwhile the U.S. military said Tuesday it had sent an aircraft carrier to join three other U.S. warships conducting anti-terror operations off the Somali coast.

U.S. warships have been seeking to capture al-Qaida members thought to be fleeing Somalia in the wake of Ethiopia's Dec. 24 invasion.

The U.S. attacks took place on Monday afternoon on Badmadow island. The area is known as Ras Kamboni and is suspected to be a terror training base.

After two days of fierce fighting, Ethiopian and Somali forces say they are on the verge of capturing Ras Kamboni, where they say the Islamic movement is cornered.

U.S. officials said after the Sept. 11 attacks that extremists with ties to al-Qaida operated a training camp at Ras Kamboni and al-Qaida members are believed to have visited it. The alleged mastermind of the embassy bombings in East Africa, Fazul Abdullah Mohammed, escaped to Ras Kamboni, according to testimony from one of the convicted bombers.

Mohammed is believed to be the leader of the al-Qaida East Africa cell.

Mohammed, 31, has been the most targeted al-Qaida operative in Africa for nearly a decade. He is most commonly known as Harun Fazul. He is fluent in English, French, Arabic and Swahili.

Mohammed has been indicted in the United States in connection with the Aug. 6, 1998, embassy bombings and the U.S. has established a reward of $5 million for information leading to his capture.

Leaders of the Islamic movement have vowed from their hideouts to launch an Iraq-style guerrilla war in Somalia, and al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden's deputy has called on militants to carry out suicide attacks on the Ethiopian troops.

U.N. peacekeepers?
On Monday Somalia's interim president, Abdullahi Yusuf, entered the restive capital for the first time since his election in a country riven by more than a decade of anarchy.

Many people in predominantly Muslim Somalia resent the presence of troops from neighboring Ethiopia, which has a large Christian population and has fought two brutal wars with Somalia, most recently in 1977.

Somalia has not had an effective central government since clan-based warlords toppled dictator Mohamed Siad Barre in 1991 and then turned on each other, sinking the Horn of Africa nation of 7 million people into chaos.

At least 13 attempts at government have failed since then. The current government was established in 2004 with U.N. backing.

European Union foreign policy chief Javier Solana said he told U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon on Monday that a U.N. peacekeeping force may be needed to guarantee security and stability in Somalia. He said Ugandan forces may be the first deployed to replace Ethiopian troops.

Jendayi Frazer, the U.S. assistant secretary of state for Africa, said Sunday that the United States would use its diplomatic and financial resources to support the government. The U.S. has pledged $40 million in political, humanitarian and peacekeeping assistance.

The African Union has begun planning for a peacekeeping force, and Uganda has promised at least 1,000 soldiers. Frazer has said she hopes the first troops will begin arriving in Mogadishu before the end of the month.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

I want to know more details -- this is but the tip of something largely hidden.

But it seems this is constructively prosecuting the GWOT: go where the targets are and destroy them. Doesn't get more fundamental than that. An enemy with no sanctuary to withdraw into is an enemy without hope of winning, and that's exactly what we who are humanity's, and America's, friends want.

Some wonder aloud at my equating America's cause with humanity's, but is it not so that our foes are fighting for the chance to better their chance to oppress? Are we not fighting for the other fraction of humanity, the little guys who would be the most oppressed?

That's pretty much all I need. Some others get crabbed because it's a Republican commander in chief running the war, at which view I scoff -- it's unworthy.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Ibram

Does this mean we have to invade them, too?

Appreciate a point I have been making since long before "Mission Accomplished" started. Long before the world or even UN gets involved in national problems, first it is the job of those adjacent nations. If Saddam was a threat, then this was first the problem of Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Turkey, Jordan, etc. And then it was a problem for the Arab League. Then a UN responsibility and only finally a world problem. But Iraq was not even a threat to any adjacent neighbor. If you did not see that, then you are easily deceived by a political agenda or extremist political liars. You probably also believe lies about Pond's Institute for younger skin and Listerine.

Sudan, Bosnia, Croatia, Serbia, Cambodia, Uganda, etc are/were all solved first by regional powers. Miramar is a classic example of a problem not being solved by its neighbors. Somalia is a problem for the African Union which is so overstretched as to (will) eventually call for help first from adjacent regions and then from the UN.

UN is also too overstretched - already with about 100,000 troops deployed.

When America decides to unilaterally solve problems (justified by a political agenda rather than reality), then America loses wars. Again the lesson about smoking gun, strategic objective, and exit strategy. But political extremists learned Goebel's propaganda techniques (see Rush Limbaugh daily brainwashing). Too many American failed to first learn historical fundamentals on how problems are solved.

Notice the powers that are getting involved in Somalia - adjacent nations. Ethiopia and Kenya. Notice that entire region is really in a mess. The old Colonial power (France) is attempting to provide support for some nations. But don't for one minute take a myopic (denial) viewpoint that Urbane Guerrilla, George Jr, and Rush Limbaugh have taken. One of the more responsible regional powers is Nigeria. Nigeria is falling quickly into civil war. A major pillar of the African Union may be lost. A factor that those with minimal grasp of the news would be aware of.

George Jr openly campaigned (lied) that Bosnia had compromises US military abilities. He lied because 'big dics' don't like wars solved by a peace table.

The Balkans is a success story where little military was used because diplomacy instead was implemented by people without a political agenda. And because the military used real world numbers - 40,000 troops per every 1 million civilians. Some Balkans are now national members of the EU. Others are ongoing through reconciliation. The Balkans is an ongoing success story; a problem solved at less cost because it was implemented by people without a political agenda. Solved by those who are - by definition - patriotic Americans.

Iraq is a complete opposite. As a result, two-thirds of the US military is no longer operational. How can this be if George Jr believed what he said about the Balkans? "Mission Accomplished" war is being lost because anti-Americans refuse to admit we created a civil war. A war that America cannot win. These anti-Americans also have you ignoring the pending American defeat in Afghanistan. Notice how the mental midget president does (very successfully) has us ignore Afghanistan.

Notice that even his closest advisors who warned of defeat in Aug 2003 were instead removed. Did you notice - or did you instead listen to Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, and other anti-Americans? It was that simple back then. Did you understand this in 2004? If not, then just another reason why so many don't understand Somalia - did not learn the lessons of history.

We have no options. America does not even have sufficient military power to address Darfur and Sudan due to waste of American military and its equipment in Iraq. Maintaining an army too small - half way around the world - and by spending massively on corporate welfare and corruption in Iraq is destroying US military equipment, abilities, and success. Deja vue Vietnam.

Do you have any idea how much Iraq is costing America? For every one hour of flight time, a chopper requires eight hours of maintenance. That number is higher in Iraq. And that number also does not include maintenance to a supply line for that chopper maintenance. Choppers must now be used in Iraq as taxi cabs even between Baghdad and its airport - the country is that much anti-American. Costs of everything in Iraq have that much destroyed US military capability. Just another fact that those with political agendas hope you never learn. Just another fact that directly applies to this topic - Somalia.

Somalia will not promote the legacy of George Jr. Just another of ‘how many reasons' above say America cannot get into Somalia. America is being defeated in Iraq as so many advisers - even Bremer and Gen Garner were predicting in 2003. George Jr must do everything possible to maintain war in Iraq (even lose in Afghanistan) for his legacy. Don't fool yourself for one minute. George Jr's every action is about his legacy - even when it contradicts the interests of America. No wonder he hopes we don't ask this question: "When do we go after bin Laden?" Another part of the "do we go to Somalia" question.

Even if Somalia was in American interests, well, George Jr (proverbial liar) will not get involved. Somalia will not promote his legacy nor promote a neocon agenda. Without a draft, we have no ability to get into another prolonged war. Again the legacy of neocons who have a political agenda and therefore have Urbane Guerrilla knowledge.

BTW, this was America in 1970s as Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young sang "Tin soldiers and Nixon's coming." and The Temptations sang "War what is it good for... absolutely nothing". This was the attitude when the president lied so often that crime in the streets increased. That's right. When Nixion lied, then no one can be trusted - not even the police. "No one over 30 can be trusted". Another example of "85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management". Just another lesson you should have learned from history. These same anti-American extremists even promote 'more guns' as a result of their fears. Learn from history.

Forget Somalia. Their lives have no value in America. Far more serious and pending problems are coming - both domestic and international. As far as America is concerned, thousand can die in Somalia and we cannot even consider it. This is the real legacy of George Jr and of those anti-Americans who listened to Rush Limbaugh and Fox News. Notice how these anti-Americans even hope you ignore the Iraq Study Group report as America also ignored the "Wise men". More lessons from history. Deja vue Vietnam.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

And once again, our goat-nibbled sage tw obfuscates with his wisdom.

Really, tw, would you give credit to somebody who mixes up Miramar (presumably the Naval Air Station) with Myanmar?

We can't trust the pronunciamentoes that "we cannot win" from someone this unaware.

You are over thirty, are you not?

George Jr openly campaigned (lied) that Bosnia had compromises US military abilities.

This is not a sentence; it is gibberish. Tw, you're possessed of only a very small mind if you think this kind of thing will persuade. Your example gives me the idea that anti-Americanism makes people stupid. I have only to read your works to see that demonstrated, aye, proven.

For something that's "no longer operational" the US Army seems plenty busy campaigning, in Iraq and elsewhere.

[JayMcGee]

mmmmm...... wonder if UG would be so gung-ho and free with the gunships if the terrorists were hiding in say downtown LA or Washington....


oh, but they did, didn't they......

[Urbane Guerrilla]

I'm always gung-ho, Jay. If war comes, I shoot. Simple as that.

[Ibby]

Yet the insurgents in Iraq are in the wrong...

[JayMcGee]

Yeah, I guess you would too....

A question....... ooops, too late

[Hippikos]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

I'm always gung-ho, Jay. If war comes, I shoot. Simple as that.

Did you volunteered for Iraq?

[Aliantha]

Are they picking on you UG? lol

[tw]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

I'm always gung-ho, Jay. If war comes, I shoot. Simple as that.

So that's what UG stands for. When I in doubt, U GONE.

[Torrere]

I was really very optimistic for the Islamic Courts Union. I thought that it was pretty cool that, over the past ten years, the Somalis had slowly developed a system for maintaining law and order by creating independent Islamic courts in different regions. I thought it was pretty cool that they banded together and managed to oust the warlords that have been tearing Somalia to pieces since 1991. It thought it was pretty cool that Mogadishu was peaceful again after 15 years of strife.

Of course, I knew that they were Islamic and therefore our enemy and therefore it wouldn't last. The War Nerd wrote a column on December 1st predicting that Ethiopia would invade Somalia, and the Ethiopians invaded on December 24th. (So the US didn't have to do any work at all, although we were probably funding the Ethiopians just like we had been funding a group of Somali warlords earlier this year).

The Somali army had a bunch of foot soldiers and "technicals" (a technical is basically a pickup truck with a machine gun bolted to it, invented by the Red Cross as "technical support"). Technicals are pretty popular these days, but they don't stand up to tanks very well, and the Ethiopians sent in nearly 200 tanks, along with helicopters, airplanes, and bombers. The ICU lost almost all of their territory within days. They couldn't fight a conventional war, so they gave up and switched to guerilla warfare mode. It'll be interesting to see who wins.

We don't need to invade because the Ethiopians already have. The American airstrike was a pretty small thing and probably doesn't signify much. I doubt that we'll put many troops in Somalia, and I doubt that the West will care much about what happens there.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by tw

So that's what UG stands for. When I in doubt, U GONE.

Hey shitbag, did you forget that I served and you didn't? You were never there. Honestly, if my brain worked as badly as yours, I think I'd shoot it.

And all other snarky schmucks -- when you've got more and greater medals than I do, and have more years in service, then you can talk trash about volunteering.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by Hippikos

Did you volunteered for Iraq?

Let's see if you "did volunteered" (grammar as in the original), Hip. It's like this: if you volunteered, great; if you didn't, stfu. It is an open question, you know.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by Ibram

Yet the insurgents in Iraq are in the wrong...

Well, Ibbie, just how many of them aren't fighting for a license to oppress? I suppose the Kurds have the best credentials along that line if anyone does.

The latest Thomas Friedman column has some interesting remarks on all this, and he's pretty darn good on the Middle East.