Iraq by the Numbers - or how to be dumb. - Page 6

Hippikos · 01-26-2007, 04:02 PM

Quote:

The Arabs and Druzes who made their peace with the Jewish influx are Israeli citizens today, and welcome.

The Arab minority in Israel has never been recognized by the State of Israel as a national minority. The national, ethnic, and linguistic character of the Arab community has been consistently ignored and has often resulted in discrimination by the Israeli Government. They are often considered to be a Trojan Horse in Israel.

Aliantha · 01-26-2007, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Nonetheless, Ali, we'd dearly like a situation where they'd likely choose to deal, and smoothly, with us. It is likely in any case, as petroleum will for a long time be the salable commodity in the greater world economy. Combining this wealth generator with widely varied and distributed investment in all other economic sectors helps the oilpatch nations escape the risks of one-crop economies.

What you say is true UG, however the fact remains that it's not the US's decision as to how oil in the middle east should be distributed. Or should I say, it shouldn't be.

The last two statements you've made to me have demonstrated nothing short of bully boy tactics in order to arrange things in such a way that it benefits the US and of course their allies.

Urbane Guerrilla · 01-27-2007, 02:02 AM

HM, it seems to me you mistake their fault -- their eighteen-year effort to start a war with us, dating from Marine Barracks Beirut 1983 through 9/11 -- for our fault. I don't.

Urbane Guerrilla · 01-27-2007, 02:07 AM

"...of course their allies" -- in a word, you, Ali.

Keep in mind our self-made, self-declared enemies are busy trying to bully us. We see no practical difference between this and the assaults against us that put us into World War Two. Still gonna mean fightin', and we understand that.

Fighting of this nature mostly quits once everybody is too fucking tired of it. But you have to wear everybody out first.

Happy Monkey · 01-27-2007, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

HM, it seems to me you mistake their fault -- their eighteen-year effort to start a war with us, dating from Marine Barracks Beirut 1983 through 9/11 -- for our fault. I don't.

Who are you talking about here?

Torrere · 01-27-2007, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Torrere, kidding aside, you've got the wrong "them" in mind -- our whole purpose is to bludgeon the bludgeoners who oppose this improvement, leaving them too braindamaged or too dead to affect the progress towards democracy.

...

The Iraqi nuclear program had absolutely everyone fooled, apparently including Saddam Hussein.

That line is total bullshit. I remember 2003. The international investigators led by Hans Blix were not fooled at all. The American people were not fooled by the Iraqi nuclear program, they were fooled by Colin Powell and the Bush administration.

On the other hand, you have an incredibly historicist take on democracy. It reminds me of the way that Marxists claimed that Communism was inevitable. They were so convinced that Communism was inevitable that they tried to accelerate the progression to communism by setting up dictatorships in Central Asia. Those dictatorships are now opposed only by radical Islam.

Democracy is great, but it doesn't seem like a historical inevitability any more than Communism was, and it doesn't seem like a cure-all either.

Torrere · 01-27-2007, 06:27 PM

It Has Unraveled So Quickly

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY Times article

Iraq is a different country now.

The moderates are mostly gone. My phone includes at least a dozen entries for middle-class families who have given up and moved away. They were supposed to build democracy here. Instead they work odd jobs in Syria and Jordan. Even the moderate political leaders have left.

Hurray for bludgeoning!

Aliantha · 01-27-2007, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

"...of course their allies" -- in a word, you, Ali.

No shit sherlock! Glad you picked that part up UG

Keep in mind our self-made, self-declared enemies are busy trying to bully us. We see no practical difference between this and the assaults against us that put us into World War Two. Still gonna mean fightin', and we understand that.

The US didn't get involved in WW11 till the Japs bombed the shit out of you. I'm sure knee jerk was good then, and I'm sure it's got a lot to do with all these 'pre-emptive' strikes now.

Fighting of this nature mostly quits once everybody is too fucking tired of it. But you have to wear everybody out first.

Fighting of this nature doesn't stop till the citizens of one country or another stand up and say enough is enough (you dumb shits). Why did the war in Vietnam end? Do you remember?

Griff · 01-29-2007, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

HM, it seems to me you mistake their fault -- their eighteen-year effort to start a war with us, dating from Marine Barracks Beirut 1983 through 9/11 -- for our fault. I don't.

Hmmm... so you're saying our problems with the Arab world began in '83 in Beirut? Do you think those Marines were there on vacation?

Urbane Guerrilla · 02-01-2007, 11:40 PM

Happy Monkey, your reply shows doublethink, or maybe unthink, if you cannot follow my argument. Who, indeed. Doubleplusungood.

Griff, no, I'm not saying that; I'm saying the current phase of the problem, the going after us, really got going about then. Were they or were they not trying to either start a war with us, or win it then?

Aliantha, I remember it ended when the Communists won in 1975 -- and then kept the place buggered up, and the refugees streaming and rafting out of there, for the next ten years. One reason I'm ardently pro-human and anticommunist, remember?

Really, people: I'm far more sensible than you want me to be; deal with it better than you have, okay?

Aliantha · 02-02-2007, 12:08 AM

Your view on how and why the Vietnam 'occupation' ended is as warped as some of your other views UG.

I rather think it was because public pressure led to the government of the day deciding they'd bitten off more than they could chew and couldn't solve the problems of another nation any better than those of their own.

02-02-2007, 12:43 AM

That we were getting our ass kicked due to our policies toward how we fought that "conflict" had nothing to do with it? Yeah, right.

Aliantha · 02-02-2007, 12:51 AM

those tricksy jungle folk did make life hard didn't they?

Aliantha · 02-02-2007, 12:52 AM

Maybe Bush thinks it'll be different this time cause there's no trees to hide behind?

piercehawkeye45 · 02-02-2007, 12:59 AM

Or maybe because there is no way to stop the Iraqi civil war.

01-27-2007, 02:02 AM	#78
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	HM, it seems to me you mistake their fault -- their eighteen-year effort to start a war with us, dating from Marine Barracks Beirut 1983 through 9/11 -- for our fault. I don't. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

01-27-2007, 02:07 AM	#79
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	"...of course their allies" -- in a word, you, Ali. Keep in mind our self-made, self-declared enemies are busy trying to bully us. We see no practical difference between this and the assaults against us that put us into World War Two. Still gonna mean fightin', and we understand that. Fighting of this nature mostly quits once everybody is too fucking tired of it. But you have to wear everybody out first. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

02-01-2007, 11:40 PM	#85
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Happy Monkey, your reply shows doublethink, or maybe unthink, if you cannot follow my argument. Who, indeed. Doubleplusungood. Griff, no, I'm not saying that; I'm saying the current phase of the problem, the going after us, really got going about then. Were they or were they not trying to either start a war with us, or win it then? Aliantha, I remember it ended when the Communists won in 1975 -- and then kept the place buggered up, and the refugees streaming and rafting out of there, for the next ten years. One reason I'm ardently pro-human and anticommunist, remember? Really, people: I'm far more sensible than you want me to be; deal with it better than you have, okay? __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course. Last edited by Urbane Guerrilla; 02-01-2007 at 11:48 PM.

02-02-2007, 12:08 AM	#86
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Your view on how and why the Vietnam 'occupation' ended is as warped as some of your other views UG. I rather think it was because public pressure led to the government of the day deciding they'd bitten off more than they could chew and couldn't solve the problems of another nation any better than those of their own. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

02-02-2007, 12:51 AM	#88
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	those tricksy jungle folk did make life hard didn't they? __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

02-02-2007, 12:43 AM	#87
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	That we were getting our ass kicked due to our policies toward how we fought that "conflict" had nothing to do with it? Yeah, right.

02-02-2007, 12:52 AM	#89
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Maybe Bush thinks it'll be different this time cause there's no trees to hide behind? __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

02-02-2007, 12:59 AM	#90
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	Or maybe because there is no way to stop the Iraqi civil war.

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