Kyoto Treaty

Individuals should not be the main issue. Every individual could reduce our carbon footprint to 0 and made exactly that impact.
Industry puts 99.999% of the greenhouse gasses into the environment. That is where the attack HAS to begin & where the radical change must be made to start.
Al Gore, a hypocrite that owns a mine, giant non-green mansions and flies around in a private jet, is just selling guilt and nothing else. There is no logic to it.
It is not "liberal", against progress (quite the opposite), or against your nation to feel that industry must be responsible for their trash.
Even if you do not believe that this has to do with Global Warming, it is what is the right thing to do and is the first step in moving toward eliminating needless pollution and removing our dependence on foreign oil and eventually on oil and coal as a fuel source.
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[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Phil

given that we're all experiencing weird weather

http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=13023&page=3

and other strange phenomena, isnt it about time America signed up to the treaty and big industries took action, to set an example to the public to do their part?

do you do your part?

No. Not until all parties, including so called "emerging economies" like China and India have to install and implement the same protections they expect of me. Those are two of the most polluted nasy smokey countries I have ever visited. When the Chinese and Indians insall multi-million dollar scrubbers on all their power plants and factories we may consider involvement, till then screw em.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Individuals should not be the main issue. Every individual could reduce our carbon footprint to 0 and made exactly that impact.
Industry puts 99.999% of the greenhouse gasses into the environment. That is where the attack HAS to begin & where the radical change must be made to start.
Al Gore, a hypocrite that owns a mine, giant non-green mansions and flies around in a private jet, is just selling guilt and nothing else. There is no logic to it.
It is not "liberal", against progress (quite the opposite), or against your nation to feel that industry must be responsible for their trash.
Even if you do not believe that this has to do with Global Warming, it is what is the right thing to do and is the first step in moving toward eliminating needless pollution and removing our dependence on foreign oil and eventually on oil and coal as a fuel source.
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You got that right. All gore uses the same amount of energy per month that my all electric 3000 square foot house uses in a year. Hipocrites everyone of them.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

till then screw em.

Who is the "em" you are referring to there? Everybody?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Who is the "em" you are referring to there? Everybody?

Everybody else who thinks we should sign. It obviously can't be everybody in general. :p

[Happy Monkey]

Unfortunately, it is.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Unfortunately, it is.

You think "everybody" thinks we should sign??? Obviously that is not true to we already would have...

[Happy Monkey]

No, everybody gets screwed.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

No, everybody gets screwed.

If "everybody" gets screwed it will not be because the US failed to sign the treaty. I promise you that. No matter how hard people want to believe that all the ills of the world are our fault.

[Griff]

Merc, you may appreciate this old thread.

[Phil]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

No. Not until all parties, including so called "emerging economies" like China and India have to install and implement the same protections they expect of me. Those are two of the most polluted nasy smokey countries I have ever visited. When the Chinese and Indians insall multi-million dollar scrubbers on all their power plants and factories we may consider involvement, till then screw em.

thats exactly the "we dont give a shit cuz we're allright" attitude that made me want ask the question in the first place, because while i agree about China and India, America is just as big a polluter and wastes more energy than countries who havent even got it to waste.

nobody so far has said whether they "do their part", by recycling paper, cardboard, glass, plastic etc.

i also agree that big polluting industries need to take the reins and set an example to the public, and even thought the treaty may seem to be a farce to some people, it has to be the first step to international concern and co-operation.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

If "everybody" gets screwed it will not be because the US failed to sign the treaty. I promise you that. No matter how hard people want to believe that all the ills of the world are our fault.

But the stuff we do is the stuff we can do something about.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Phil

thats exactly the "we dont give a shit cuz we're allright" attitude that made me want ask the question in the first place, because while i agree about China and India, America is just as big a polluter and wastes more energy than countries who havent even got it to waste.

nobody so far has said whether they "do their part", by recycling paper, cardboard, glass, plastic etc.

i also agree that big polluting industries need to take the reins and set an example to the public, and even thought the treaty may seem to be a farce to some people, it has to be the first step to international concern and co-operation.

Bottom line is this. The developing economies like India and China would like nothing more than to see our country sign on to kyoto and sit back and watch as we further outsource and spend billions nation wide to meet the double standards they will never have to meet or spend money on to achieve ANY level of CO emissions that we will have to do. When the playing field is level I would agree to it. But I am not going to sit back and watch people point fingers at us as they expand and build thier economies on our back as we further spin down the toilet economically and as a nation. So yea, screw them.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

But the stuff we do is the stuff we can do something about.

To what end and at what cost. Say over the next 50 years we make this the cleanest place in the world, cutting say 50% of emissions. And the world still continues to slide toward and on the same path as the developing nations would so like to see us go, down. As thier output increases and doubles or triples. What was gained? Our destruction? How about this, we cut off all overseas payments of monetary aid to all developing nations so we can pay to clean up our house. I would agree to that. Cut off the money we send to the UN as well.

[piercehawkeye45]

So yea, screw them.

This is the type of attitude that makes everyone hate America. Instead of working to find something we can both do and compromise we just say fuck them. This is why they want to see us fall, not because we are on top.