The Blasphemy Challenge

[KGZotU]

There's denotation, and then there's connotation. If you honestly don't believe that this is confrontational, I won't challenge your assessment.

To me, however, it is clear that Brian Flemming is erring on the side of arrogance. Look at the title, "The Blasphemy Challenge". I think we can agree that blasphemy is a connotatively negative word. Challenge is at once a celebration of skill and an invitation. Why choose an offensive word to revel in, when there are plenty of denotative synonyms? Why not the "Atheist Affirmation Project" or something similar? Why must you specifically flaunt scripture in order to 'rise to the challenge' and 'win a fabulous prize'.

If this is purely about supporting a community, shouldn't you just be able to say, "I've been an atheist since I was 13," or, "I don't feel like I can tell anyone else, but I've never really felt the need to believe in God." Instead you must deny the existence of God, often by relegating him to the class of non-existent entities which defined your childhood.

rkzenrage, you did not put words in my mouth. You responded to words that had been put in my mouth. (;

--Joe

[Undertoad]

There's a cloyingly sweet little tale that's almost universal... in response to a child asking, if there's Mother's Day and Father's Day, why isn't there a Children's Day? And the parent replies, Every day is Children's Day.

Well I'm here to tell you: Every Day is Christian's Day.

You may not have been aware of this.

Y'see, when Linus goes into the speech about the Real Meaning of Christmas, non-Christians don't say anything.

When someone at a dinner says first let us bow our heads and say grace, almost all of us politely bow our heads and pretend to pray. We may even say Amen.

For two years, I worked for an employer that put "Reverence for God and all His Works" into their Official Company List of Values. I just shut up, did a good job and collected my paycheck.

So now you find the name of this thing to be a little in-your-face? How DARE people actively proclaim that they don't agree with you!

Well you poor thing! How hard it must be for you! Let me call you the WAAAAAHBULANCE!!!

[KGZotU]

I guess I should consider myself 'pwned' by your invocation of the 'WAAAAAHBULANCE!!!'

I think you misunderstand my argument.

I am not attempting to suggest an 'equivalent' response to Christianity. I am not attempting to circumscribe the 'rights' of atheists. My argument does not depend upon the actions of Christians, and hence your objections are invalid.

You see arrogance? I do not think that arrogance should be met with arrogance. I think that this is true in general, and I think that it is particularly true in the case of this 'atheist PR crisis.' My personal feelings aside, I'm trying to suggest a prudent, responsible and effective course for atheists.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

So now you find the name of this thing to be a little in-your-face? How DARE people actively proclaim that they don't agree with you!

I don't remember establishing that they disagree with me.

--Joe

Edit: Image removed from quote.

[wolf]

Welcome, KGZ. You've come to the right place.

[wolf]

Originally Posted by Beestie

The ten commandments (or 15 if you believe Mel Brooks) are not Christian. They pre-date Jesus by a considerable span of time and are referenced in varying degrees by Christians, Jews and Muslims alike and so could not possibly offend any member of the big three religions.

Loved your analysis. Nice work, buddy.

[piercehawkeye45]

You would imply with your posts that I said Christians do not display arrogance or superiority, when it is clear that I said nothing of the sort. My focus was clearly on the actions, options, and opportunities of atheists.

And I am showing the other side. Yes, some atheists will show arrogance but every religion does that so don't pick out atheists when everyone is doing it.

I suggest that many atheists do not wish to be treated as equal, because such treatment would remove their license to feel superior over others.

This is horrible logic. Every religion has people that feel superior to others. Every religion would be doing the same thing atheists are doing right now, so that is human nature. Don't accuse atheists of doing something that everyone does.

[piercehawkeye45]

I am not attempting to suggest an 'equivalent' response to Christianity. I am not attempting to circumscribe the 'rights' of atheists. My argument does not depend upon the actions of Christians, and hence your objections are invalid.

Are you saying that atheists should be respectful of all religions when all others have free reign. You are making a double standard for Christians and you can't do that. You can't just point out atheist's mistakes and ignore Christians.

How can you deny the holy spirit without being confrontational? They are saying that they do not believe in the holy spirit. You do not have to watch it and you have to respect other people's views.

[KGZotU]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Are you saying that atheists should be respectful of all religions when all others have free reign. You are making a double standard for Christians and you can't do that. You can't just point out atheist's mistakes and ignore Christians.

How can you deny the holy spirit without being confrontational? They are saying that they do not believe in the holy spirit. You do not have to watch it and you have to respect other people's views.

piercehawkeye,

It's preposterous to suggest that I've created a double standard. Where have a I set a standard for Christians or any other group?

Why am I discussing atheists in general and The Blasphemy Project specifically? That's the topic of this thread. Furthermore, the righteous do not act in kind to their antagonists; they act righteously.

What would be a non-confrontational way to proclaim yourself an atheist? I answered this above:

Originally Posted by KGZotU

If this is purely about supporting a community, shouldn't you just be able to say, "I've been an atheist since I was 13," or, "I don't feel like I can tell anyone else, but I've never really felt the need to believe in God."

An intentionally confrontational method to encourage others to deny God would be producing a video which begins by establishing the profound importance of proper Christianity, and then ridiculing that proposition by encouraging people to damn themselves eternally in exchange for a video.

--Joe

[Undertoad]

Who said it was about building a community? It's all about making a point. The video is irrelevant. There are over 2000 responses now -- withonly the first 1000 getting a video -- so further video-making won't earn anyone a video.

[KGZotU]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Again, the reason it is the way it is, is to form a community, a support system for people who normally feel quite alone. To show that they are not... it feels different on a day to day basis, I can tell you from first-hand experience.

In Soviet Russia, the posts search for YOU!

[Undertoad]

Ah thanks. Well, I disagree with rk. It's all about making a point.

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

There's a cloyingly sweet little tale that's almost universal... in response to a child asking, if there's Mother's Day and Father's Day, why isn't there a Children's Day? And the parent replies, Every day is Children's Day.

Well I'm here to tell you: Every Day is Christian's Day.

You may not have been aware of this.

Y'see, when Linus goes into the speech about the Real Meaning of Christmas, non-Christians don't say anything.

When someone at a dinner says first let us bow our heads and say grace, almost all of us politely bow our heads and pretend to pray. We may even say Amen.

For two years, I worked for an employer that put "Reverence for God and all His Works" into their Official Company List of Values. I just shut up, did a good job and collected my paycheck.

I'm very faith-friendly. Mostly because the people who raised me, and to whom I owe a huge debt of gratitude, still practise their faith.

But this post is outstanding for me in its candour, its clarity and in stating the facts exactly as I live them. And courtesy. Until the ambulance - but that was funny.

Thanks UT - this message is now filed away.

[KGZotU]

Undertoad,

If you want to make a point, I won't challenge you. The Blasphemy Challenge is the appropriate medium. (;

[lumberjim]

just because i hate it when my posts land at the bottom of a page, and then someone posts right after....and i think no one saw what i posted.....and i am seeing a new guy make more sense than anyone else ( KGZ) ...i want to reiterate:

There is no Blashpemy if you are truly atheistic. It's just pissing on the Christians. The same thing we (as atheists or agnostics) resent them for. So how is this helping? Are you hoping to convert people to your lack of a church? Are you truly being altruisticly motivated to 'rescue them' from brainwashing?

If they want to believe in Christianity, or Hinduism, or Islam, or whatevvvvver....fuck 'em. leave them to it. just require that they pay you the same respect. You don't have to get all up in their face and act out like some kind of rebelious teenager. You're not going to change their minds.

So why do I always argue with mrnoodle? cuz i like to. And if you like making videos that so daringly damn your everliving soul.....for the rush? don't claim to be atheistic, cuz yer not!

[piercehawkeye45]

It's preposterous to suggest that I've created a double standard. Where have a I set a standard for Christians or any other group?

You have done it by not setting a standard.

Yes, this video can be confrontational and I won't avoid that fact, but it does have some justification. Christians have forced their religion onto everyone and this is just atheists pushing back. I would like to see an atheist go onto national television and briefly explain what atheism is and get rid of the stereotypes but that won't happen because that person would never get aired. It would be like trying to set up a sit in protest when you can't even get into the restaurant.