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Old 03-30-2007, 09:48 AM   #1
Flint
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Originally Posted by Sundae Girl View Post
They believe that all you have to do to go to heaven is "like, be a good person".
The sign in question seems to suggest that being a good person counts for nothing.

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And no, you don't end up just looking after number one if you follow Christ's teachings either.
I didn't say a word about Christ's teachings. I have nothing but the deepest innermost respect, down to the core of my being, for Christ's teachings. The exploitative teachings of Christianity, which use Jesus as a recruitment tool, and bear little resemblence to his actual message, are an entirely different subject. Conflating the two is deeply troubling to me, on a personal level. It is disrespectful to Jesus.
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Old 03-30-2007, 09:51 AM   #2
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The sign in question seems to suggest that being a good person counts for nothing.
They were trying to fit it all into a snappy slogan.
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Old 03-30-2007, 10:00 AM   #3
Flint
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They were trying to fit it all into a snappy slogan.
It's more than a snappy slogan. I've heard sermons on this, I've been to Bible studies about this (remember, I played drums in a church band for years). The idea of "not through good works alone" can be over-extended into truly disturbing areas. I've had serious discussions with Christians (at Bible study, which was between band practice and the actual service) tyring to get to the heart of this issue: if making you into a better person is not the goal of religion (and they say it isn't, the goal is praising the greatness of God or whatever) then religion has a serious problem justifying it's existence.
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There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there
it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your
expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever
gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio
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Old 03-30-2007, 09:56 AM   #4
Sundae
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Originally Posted by Flint View Post
The sign in question seems to suggest that being a good person counts for nothing.
I didn't read it that way, but I think it was deliberately worded to make people think.
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I didn't say a word about Christ's teachings. I have nothing but the deepest innermost respect, down to the core of my being, for Christ's teachings. The exploitative teachings of Christianity, which use Jesus as a recruitment tool, and bear little resemblence to his actual message, are an entirely different subject. Conflating the two is deeply troubling to me, on a personal level. It is disrespectful to Jesus.
Fair enough.

I assume that if the message is outside a Christian church then the people who respond to the message will be Christians, or looking to become Christians. And the central tenet of Christianity is not "look out for number one"
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Old 03-30-2007, 10:02 AM   #5
Flint
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And the central tenet of Christianity is not "look out for number one"
The central tenet of Christ's teachings, or any religious teaching, is not that. But, the way people actually interpret Christianity easily can be.
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******************
There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there
it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your
expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever
gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio
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Old 03-30-2007, 10:40 AM   #6
Griff
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This is a big point of contention between Catholics and redemptionists. RC's are supposed to believe that there needs to be a combination of works and beliefs. FWIW
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