Immigration - Demography vs. Border Control

[DanaC]

Out Constitution applies to our citizens, not to every tom, dick, and harry that comes here under false pretenses and in an illegal manner.

What you are talking about is illegal immigration. I am talking about legal immigration. Are you of the opinion then that there should be no instances of people not born in America, or to American parents, being granted citizenship?

If your country is one of that hardest to get into, why shouldn't we get a bit smarter and do the same.

Because if you follow our example you'll end up as fucked up as we are going to be. We also have a demographic timebomb to deal with. As I said, our immigration and asylum 'problems' aren't actuallywhat they have been portrayed to be. Populist politics and the treatment of these issues as political footballs, have led us to act in a way that is not in the nation's best long term interests.

[DanaC]

Because you don't have to deal with the issue. You get to sit across the pond and throw stones at our policy and our problems. Look in the mirror.

Umm....are you suggesting that I refrain from commenting on any issue relating to America? Because if that is what you are suggesting, might I humbly invite you to kiss my English Arse?

[DanaC]

We are talking about our future and survival as a republic and a nation.

Originally Posted by DanaC
I think you'll find, so is that article.

I disagree

So...are you disagreeing that the article is putting forward what it sees as relevant to the future survival of America? Or are you just disagreeing with the article's premise?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by DanaC

What you are talking about is illegal immigration. I am talking about legal immigration. Are you of the opinion then that there should be no instances of people not born in America, or to American parents, being granted citizenship?

I am talking only about illegal immigration, not legal immigration. I think anyone who applies through the normal process should be so allowed. That is not the problem we are discussing. The problem is people coming here, over staying their visas, and or entering illegally across our pourous borders. You have the benifit of being an island. We need to become an island to control the traffic.

We are talking about MILLIONS of people, not a few hundred thousands.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200704/world-in-numbers

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by DanaC

So...are you disagreeing that the article is putting forward what it sees as relevant to the future survival of America? Or are you just disagreeing with the article's premise?

I disagree with the articles basic premise, although I do agree, as previously stated, that we need an effective guest worker program. I don't agree with her predictions or recommendations.

[DanaC]

We are talking about MILLIONS of people, not a few hundred thousands.

True.....In the UK we are talking about a few hundred thousands...but then again proportionately you taking millions is an equivalent. Your population is huge compared to ours. What percentage of your overall population are we talking here?

[TheMercenary]

The numbers vary but this is about the average estimates:

"The number of illegal immigrants in the United States has grown to as many as 12 million, and they now account for about one in every 20 workers, a new estimate says. "

"It is difficult to accurately measure the number of illegal immigrants in the United States, but most public agencies and private groups had settled on a figure of about 11 million.

The Pew Hispanic Center used Census Bureau data to estimate that the United States had 11.1 million illegal immigrants in March 2005. The center used monthly population estimates to project a current total of 11.5 million to 12 million.

The report estimates that 850,000 illegal immigrants have arrived in United States each year since 2000"


http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

[DanaC]

What is that as an overall percentage of the population, about 4 or 5%?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by DanaC

What is that as an overall percentage of the population, about 4 or 5%?

I believe it is a percent of the active workers, but I can't besure because I did not see the original Pew study.

Think of it like this, Leeds or Hull are cities in the UK with approximately 850,000 people each, that is the same as adding a city of Leeds every year. Where does it end?

[DanaC]

Think of it like this, Leeds or Hull are cities in the UK with approximately 850,000 people each, that is the same as adding a city of Leeds every year.

Well. If you were to add the city of Leeds each year to the UK, that would have a different effect than if you added the city of leeds to America each year. Also, they don't all have to be in one place, fundamentally altering the demographics of any one town or city.

If you were to add half that number per year to the UK it would be entirely balanced out by the number of people leaving. How many people leave the US in any one year?

[TheMercenary]

Current population is 301,565,665

http://factfinder.census.gov/home/sa....html?_lang=en

[DanaC]

You have a population of over 300 million and you are worried about 11 million?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Well. If you were to add the city of Leeds each year to the UK, that would have a different effect than if you added the city of leeds to America each year. Also, they don't all have to be in one place, fundamentally altering the demographics of any one town or city.

If you were to add half that number per year to the UK it would be entirely balanced out by the number of people leaving. How many people leave the US in any one year?

It was just an example. Any way you look at it that is a very large number of people. Can't you see how that would put a strain on our social systems???

[DanaC]

How many of them are claiming social security?

I understand they place a strain....but they also do a lot of the necessary but unpleasant jobs that many other people aren't willing to do, right?

[TheMercenary]

April 7, 2007, 5:21PM
Immigrants march in L.A. to protest Bush visa plan


By PETER PRENGAMAN
Associated Press

LOS ANGELES — Thousands of people marched today through downtown, demanding a way for the country's estimated 12 million illegal immigrants to become citizens and condemning President Bush's latest proposal.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/4695908.html