Vista or Not - Page 4

tw · 02-23-2007, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha

I did look up the command window, and it says I'm connected to the cable etc, but it wont let me open webpages.

IPCONFIG program does not report a modem connected. It reports an IP address such as 192.168.1.20 . That number and other information from IPCONFIG should be posted because details provide significant facts - information you do not yet realize.

Meanwhile the ethernet cable is how to connect. (Not earthnet - 'ether' as in what some once speculated was the universe). USB cable that requires drivers - don't bother.

Once that IPCONFIG number and report is confirmed, then a correct entry in IE Explorer can be entered.

mbpark · 02-24-2007, 05:36 PM

tw,

The Motorola cable modems, when connected via Ethernet, usually give you a public IP address (not a 192.168.x.x) address. Depending on your cable provider, this will be the case. Verizon is the only ISP I know that gives you a device with an integrated router (this is for their business DSL).

Comcast also is known to disable the internal firmware configuration utilities within their devices. Verizon surprisingly doesn't.

If she gets a Linksys router and connects that in-line, then she will have to go to 192.168.1.1 to configure it

.

Part of the reason they give the USB cable is because they lock down the network by MAC address, and the other part is due to the fact that it's a heck of a lot easier to write one call center script to troubleshoot cable modem issues if there is one NIC card (or cable device acting like one).

Yes, this can be spoofed, but the number of people that know how to do it is not significant enough to hurt their hand over fist profits.

The first thing you're going to want to do is get yourself a Linksys router at the local computer store or Wal-Mart. Windows Vista has made a lot of changes to how the network operates, and that's going to cause many issues with Motorola, who is less than reliable at writing good USB drivers for their cable modems.

You also don't want to have your computer acting as the firewall between you and lots of people with "owned" PCs. Really, you don't.

Plug the Linksys router in at the WAN port to your Cable Modem.
Plug your laptop/desktop into one of the four ports on the router. Go to 192.168.1.1 and make sure that the router is set to acquire its IP address by DHCP.

You'll be fine, and Linksys has a decent "wizard" CD-based setup that should work fine under Vista.

Many thanks,

Mitch

xoxoxoBruce · 02-24-2007, 09:59 PM

In Australia too?

tw · 02-24-2007, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbpark

The Motorola cable modems, when connected via Ethernet, usually give you a public IP address (not a 192.168.x.x) address. Depending on your cable provider, this will be the case. Verizon is the only ISP I know that gives you a device with an integrated router (this is for their business DSL).

Which is why the actual numbers from IPCONFIG are required.

Aliantha said IPCONFIG reported modem connected. How did she know? IPCONFIG does not report modem protected. IPCONFIG only reports an IP address (ie 192.168.1.20). Another example of knowing something also demands why - the numbers.

Because it is Vista, then just another reason why Motorla modem should be connect via ethernet cable - not USB cable.

How does a Comcast modem connect to separate router? What protocol? Does modem connect using IP or does it use PPP protocols? IOW does Comcast modem act as a one port router or does it act as a bridge?

Comcast does not provide a multiple port router version of their modem? SB5101 is the single ethernet Motorola version. SB5102 is a modem with router (multiport) version. Does Comcast offer SB5102?

mbpark · 02-25-2007, 11:12 AM

tw,

Comcast offers a single port version, no multiple-port version. If you have a business setup with them, they will provide you with a Linksys or Netgear router.

Verizon, on the other hand, will give you an integrated Westell 4-port router with 802.11g wireless (with WPA-PSK support, no less), and very good support for user configurability. I.E. if you have a good enough (read: business with static IP) plan from them, they will help you even configure it for server usage.

Their cable modems connect to the routers out there over TCP/IP (the router has to use DHCP to connect to the modem, and usually requires you to use the "MAC Cloning" feature of the Linksys modems to connect the router from your PC as some cable providers associate a cable modem with a NIC card in a PC).

However, I have heard that Telstra in AU does require PPPoE over Cable and DSL. Verizon's consumer service requires PPPoE. Most, if not all routers support that.

The Linksys routers even have specific settings for AU/Telstra. I've seen them on the WRT54GS that I use

.

Thanks,

Mitch

Kingswood · 02-26-2007, 06:08 PM

I won't touch Vista because it has too much unnecessary DRM crap in it. Vista is basically the result of Microsoft currying favour with the big media companies. Don't expect to run anything in high-definition on Vista unless Microsoft approves it.

It looks as if Microsoft are trying to tighten their grip. But as Tarkin discovered, the more one tightens one's grip, the more will slip through the fingers. I would expect some companies to migrate to non-Windows platforms and many more to consider the move. One thing that companies can rely on with platforms like *BSD and Linux is that the operating system won't be pulled out from under them with another unnecessary "upgrade" or "end of life" five or ten years from now.

tw · 02-26-2007, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbpark

Their cable modems connect to the routers out there over TCP/IP (the router has to use DHCP to connect to the modem, and usually requires you to use the "MAC Cloning" feature of the Linksys modems to connect the router from your PC as some cable providers associate a cable modem with a NIC card in a PC).

Verizon modems (ie Westell) permit a connection either under IP or using PPPoE to a router. Reason for using PPPoE option: it eliminates some latency.

Also curious is that PPPoE is provided by ATM - using existing equipment in Verizon's network.

I am surprised that (if) the Motorola modem does not also offer PPPoE - for faster operation.

Biggest sin in any modem is no status page to view signal strength. Again, Verizon DSL modems offer that, but I don't remember seeing such status information in FIOS. Comcast modems, as best I can tell, offer no signal strength even though that parameter is essential to understanding data loss and future failures. To not provide such numbers is akin to calling the user an 'idiot who need not know anything'. Rather insulting to assume a user should always be dumb.

mbpark · 02-27-2007, 11:31 AM

tw,

I believe Motorola has that option, due to Telstra using it. However, Comcast is known for requesting certain firmware revisions for their cable modems, as is Verizon (check the Westell pages if you want to flash a Westell router, you can't).

Verizon's corporate services use static IP addresses.

Comcast's approach is that the hardware is cheap and replaceable. They'll swap out modems without doing proper signal tests until they fix the problem. This happened to my sister. Someone put a nail in the wall and nicked the wire. Comcast had to come back at least three times to fix the issue, and it was after they ran signal tests at the location that they finally figured it out. This was after three cable modems as well

.

Verizon, on the other hand, has better testing tools and methodologies because they've been doing this for a century. When they fix a signal problem, it doesn't take three times and three hardware swaps.

I am sure that they have built some rather sophisticated testing tools for FIOS. After all, it is supposed to replace the telephone, and we don't have signal strength meters on those lines

. They're just supposed to work.

It is reasons like this why Verizon or its descendants will be around fifty years from now in roughly the same form, and Comcast more than likely will not.

tw · 02-27-2007, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbpark

Comcast's approach is that the hardware is cheap and replaceable. They'll swap out modems without doing proper signal tests until they fix the problem. This happened to my sister. Someone put a nail in the wall and nicked the wire. Comcast had to come back at least three times to fix the issue, and it was after they ran signal tests at the location that they finally figured it out. This was after three cable modems as well.

Verizon, on the other hand, has better testing tools and methodologies because they've been doing this for a century. When they fix a signal problem, it doesn't take three times and three hardware swaps.

Well Verizon's response is true when you finally get the lineman. But Verizon DSL tech support (according to the linemen) get bonuses when they don't roll a truck.

The wire clearly was broken. Westell reported signal stengths of 0 and worse dB. Repeated calls to Verizon - and they had the cutomer swapping ethernet cables. Told what the dB was, they did not want to know. Reality was not important. They had this procedure which only resulted in all ethernet cables screwed up.

Furthermore, after five day, when Verizon said a truck was being rolled, they lied. So I got a supervisor who then threatend $60 and $120 service charges. Yes, those charges exist when the problem is on customers wire. But I was making a connection direct to their wire - at the NID. Therefore the problem was 100% on his wire. So they said service could not come out for two day. In reality, he was taking revenge and never dispatched a single truck. Again, their intent is to eliminate truck rolls for increase bonuses.

Eventually I got someone on the day shift. Truck arrived at 9 AM next morning. He found the broken wire. Signal strength increased by almost 20 dB - all problems solved.

Yes, if you can get a patriot - someone who knows even minimal science - then Verizon works real good. But when I get a customer service rep with an American accent, then too often a technical grasp is missing.

Meanwhile, Westell modems can be flashed. Dell even warns about some early Westell modems with firmware that must be updated a software bug discovered by Dell.

Kitsune · 02-27-2007, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw

But when I get a customer service rep with an American accent, then too often a technical grasp is missing.

Their turnover rate would explain this -- it is around three months or so. Training rooms are full on a daily basis, but always with new employees. They're pretty much trained to enter tickets and read from a troubleshooting script, nothing more.

mbpark · 02-28-2007, 07:28 AM

tw,

What I meant is that you can't find newer firmware for the Verizon-specific devices.

Thanks,

Mitch

03-25-2007, 10:47 AM

I would wait at least a year before using Vista.

SadistSecret · 04-17-2007, 01:15 AM

I have Vista on my laptop, but only because it came with it. I spent abou 6 hours trying to configure all the settings and panels to look like something I was halfway familiar with. My computer, however, is horribly slow, and I'm making the switch to Linux to my laptop really soon. I'm sick of Micro$oft, and I'm afraid the next OS they release will cripple any computer running anything that wasn't made by M$.

My Windows 98 machine, however, works just fine, if the PSU on it didn't fry out last night =)

I was always curious exactly what "XP" stood for up until the other day when it dawned on me that XP is a popular internet smiley, and that M$ has been laughing at us for years with a crappy OS.

Aliantha · 04-17-2007, 02:03 AM

NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT

This is my opinion

JayMcGee · 04-17-2007, 06:49 PM

mmmmm... tend to agree with ali-oops.

NEVER EVER use odd-numbered versions...

02-24-2007, 05:36 PM	#47
mbpark Lecturer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 761	OK, this is how that model of Cable Modem operates tw, The Motorola cable modems, when connected via Ethernet, usually give you a public IP address (not a 192.168.x.x) address. Depending on your cable provider, this will be the case. Verizon is the only ISP I know that gives you a device with an integrated router (this is for their business DSL). Comcast also is known to disable the internal firmware configuration utilities within their devices. Verizon surprisingly doesn't. If she gets a Linksys router and connects that in-line, then she will have to go to 192.168.1.1 to configure it . Part of the reason they give the USB cable is because they lock down the network by MAC address, and the other part is due to the fact that it's a heck of a lot easier to write one call center script to troubleshoot cable modem issues if there is one NIC card (or cable device acting like one). Yes, this can be spoofed, but the number of people that know how to do it is not significant enough to hurt their hand over fist profits. The first thing you're going to want to do is get yourself a Linksys router at the local computer store or Wal-Mart. Windows Vista has made a lot of changes to how the network operates, and that's going to cause many issues with Motorola, who is less than reliable at writing good USB drivers for their cable modems. You also don't want to have your computer acting as the firewall between you and lots of people with "owned" PCs. Really, you don't. Plug the Linksys router in at the WAN port to your Cable Modem. Plug your laptop/desktop into one of the four ports on the router. Go to 192.168.1.1 and make sure that the router is set to acquire its IP address by DHCP. You'll be fine, and Linksys has a decent "wizard" CD-based setup that should work fine under Vista. Many thanks, Mitch

02-24-2007, 09:59 PM	#48
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	In Australia too? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

02-25-2007, 11:12 AM	#50
mbpark Lecturer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 761	comcast offers.... tw, Comcast offers a single port version, no multiple-port version. If you have a business setup with them, they will provide you with a Linksys or Netgear router. Verizon, on the other hand, will give you an integrated Westell 4-port router with 802.11g wireless (with WPA-PSK support, no less), and very good support for user configurability. I.E. if you have a good enough (read: business with static IP) plan from them, they will help you even configure it for server usage. Their cable modems connect to the routers out there over TCP/IP (the router has to use DHCP to connect to the modem, and usually requires you to use the "MAC Cloning" feature of the Linksys modems to connect the router from your PC as some cable providers associate a cable modem with a NIC card in a PC). However, I have heard that Telstra in AU does require PPPoE over Cable and DSL. Verizon's consumer service requires PPPoE. Most, if not all routers support that. The Linksys routers even have specific settings for AU/Telstra. I've seen them on the WRT54GS that I use . Thanks, Mitch

02-27-2007, 11:31 AM	#53
mbpark Lecturer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 761	Motorola and PPPoE tw, I believe Motorola has that option, due to Telstra using it. However, Comcast is known for requesting certain firmware revisions for their cable modems, as is Verizon (check the Westell pages if you want to flash a Westell router, you can't). Verizon's corporate services use static IP addresses. Comcast's approach is that the hardware is cheap and replaceable. They'll swap out modems without doing proper signal tests until they fix the problem. This happened to my sister. Someone put a nail in the wall and nicked the wire. Comcast had to come back at least three times to fix the issue, and it was after they ran signal tests at the location that they finally figured it out. This was after three cable modems as well . Verizon, on the other hand, has better testing tools and methodologies because they've been doing this for a century. When they fix a signal problem, it doesn't take three times and three hardware swaps. I am sure that they have built some rather sophisticated testing tools for FIOS. After all, it is supposed to replace the telephone, and we don't have signal strength meters on those lines . They're just supposed to work. It is reasons like this why Verizon or its descendants will be around fifty years from now in roughly the same form, and Comcast more than likely will not.

02-28-2007, 07:28 AM	#56
mbpark Lecturer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 761	I didn't mean can't from a technical perspective.. tw, What I meant is that you can't find newer firmware for the Verizon-specific devices. Thanks, Mitch

02-26-2007, 06:08 PM	#51
Kingswood Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Melbourne, Vic Posts: 316	I won't touch Vista because it has too much unnecessary DRM crap in it. Vista is basically the result of Microsoft currying favour with the big media companies. Don't expect to run anything in high-definition on Vista unless Microsoft approves it. It looks as if Microsoft are trying to tighten their grip. But as Tarkin discovered, the more one tightens one's grip, the more will slip through the fingers. I would expect some companies to migrate to non-Windows platforms and many more to consider the move. One thing that companies can rely on with platforms like *BSD and Linux is that the operating system won't be pulled out from under them with another unnecessary "upgrade" or "end of life" five or ten years from now.

03-25-2007, 10:47 AM	#57
Raelian1 Guest Posts: n/a	I would wait at least a year before using Vista.

04-17-2007, 01:15 AM	#58
SadistSecret Even If you choose to love me, I will always choose to fall. Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Des Moines. Posts: 139	I have Vista on my laptop, but only because it came with it. I spent abou 6 hours trying to configure all the settings and panels to look like something I was halfway familiar with. My computer, however, is horribly slow, and I'm making the switch to Linux to my laptop really soon. I'm sick of Micro$oft, and I'm afraid the next OS they release will cripple any computer running anything that wasn't made by M$. My Windows 98 machine, however, works just fine, if the PSU on it didn't fry out last night =) I was always curious exactly what "XP" stood for up until the other day when it dawned on me that XP is a popular internet smiley, and that M$ has been laughing at us for years with a crappy OS.

04-17-2007, 02:03 AM	#59
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT This is my opinion __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

04-17-2007, 06:49 PM	#60
JayMcGee Cardigan-wearing man Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Much Binding In The Marsh Posts: 1,082	mmmmm... tend to agree with ali-oops. NEVER EVER use odd-numbered versions... __________________ I like wearing cardigans...... my current favourite is an orange cable-knit with real leatherette buttons.

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