This is MY America!

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

So what if he is? It's worth discussion.

Indigenous people have migrated back and forth for millennia, long before and even while Europeans and their descendents came in and started establishing and moving around the borders. That's kind of what's still happening with the migrant workers; but because of the restrictions put in place in the 90s, it became too difficult to go back and forth. So now a lot of them stay, and have become part of the undocumented immigrant population in the U.S.



That's the low end of the estimate; other estimates put the population at more than 100 million, pre-Columbian and pre-disease epidemics.

Immigration is a legal issue, nothing more.
I am all for legal immigration, good for them, I'm happy they are here.
I don't care where someone is from, there is only one human race regardless how much melanin they may, or may not, have... as long as they do not break the law.

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Yes it does.

But the fact remains, all those groups came from somewhere else, over thousands of years.

It is not a fact that all Native American groups came from somewhere else--only a theory. So far, DNA and language roots of some groups can be traced to other origins, but not all.

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

as long as they do not break the law.

rk, you said you broke the law when you jaywalked...I don't care where you're from, either, but what should we do with you?

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

It is not a fact that all Native American groups came from somewhere else--only a theory. So far, DNA and language roots of some groups can be traced to other origins, but not all.

It is a fact. There are theories on what paths they took, but they did come from somewhere else.

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

rk, you said you broke the law when you jaywalked...I don't care where you're from, either, but what should we do with you?

I paid the fine.

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

It is a fact. There are theories on what paths they took, but they did come from somewhere else.

Yes, there are theories based on very good evidence that some, even many, groups came from somewhere else, particularly Asia. But all the evidence found so far doesn't support as fact that all groups came from somewhere else.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Whoa Nellie. I've always been told that mankind started in Africa. Everyone on Earth is descended from that spot. Are you saying there was more than one beginning????

[bluecuracao]

Yeah, and mankind starting in Africa is a theory. A widely-accepted theory, but a theory nonetheless.

So is gravity.

[xoxoxoBruce]

That DNA project, National Geographic is doing, is looking for people that didn't decend from Africa as one of their goals. I'm under the impression that all the Indians they tested are tied to Asia. Maybe the Asians started here. Interesting.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

But all the evidence found so far doesn't support as fact that all groups came from somewhere else.

Yes it does.

[jinx]

Flint, I gotta say, I'm pretty disappointed with your point. I thought you were really gonna go somewhere, show us some new stuff, or something... Your facts are exactly what I was taught in school.

And further;

Originally Posted by Flint

I didn't invent the term Native American. It has a universally accepted meaning.

No it doesn't.

In April 2005, United States Senator John McCain introduced an amendment to NAGPRA which, in section 108, would change the definition of "Native American" from being that which "is indigenous to the United States" to "is or was indigenous to the United States."[4] By that definition, Kennewick Man would be Native American, whether or not any link to a contemporary tribe could be found. Proponents of this argue that is in accord with current scientific understanding, which is that it is not in all cases possible for prehistoric remains to be traced to current tribal entities, not least because of the social upheaval, forced resettlement and extinction of entire ethnicities caused by disease and warfare in the wake of European colonization. Doing so, however, would still not remove the controversy surrounding Kennewick Man as then it would have to be decided which Native American group should take possession of the remains if he could not be definitively linked with a current group. To be of practical use in a historical and prehistorical context, some argue further that the term "Native American" should be applied so that it spans the entire range from the Clovis culture (which cannot be positively assigned to any contemporary tribal group) to the Métis, who only came into being as a consequence of European contact, yet constitute a distinct cultural entity.

Originally Posted by blue

Yeah, and mankind starting in Africa is a theory. A widely-accepted theory, but a theory nonetheless.

Widely accepted because there is no evidence of it starting anywhere else. Sort of like the clovis first theory being based on a lack of evidence of anyone coming before, until recently. Its amazing, but for almost a century no one bother to dig past the clovis layer because they assumed there would be nothing there. Crazy.

One theory of pre-clovis people suggests that the first americans were austrailians.

[bluecuracao]

OK HM, I look forward to reading your fact-proving dissertation.

[lumberjim]

The shape of the skulls changes between 9,000 and 7,000 years ago from being exclusively negroid to exclusively mongoloid. Combined with rock art evidence of increasing violence at this time, it appears that the mongoloid people from the north invaded and wiped out the original Americans.

The identity of the first Americans is an emotive and controversial question. But the evidence from Brazil, and a handful of people who still live at the very tip of South America, suggests that the Americas have been home to a greater diversity of humans than previously thought - and for much longer.

[bluecuracao]

Wow, I hadn't seen the Australian origins thing before--how interesting.