This is MY America! - Page 6

jinx · 06-01-2007, 09:28 PM

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The hypothesis proposes that Ice Age Europeans could have crossed the North Atlantic along the edge of the pack ice that extended from the Atlantic coast of France to North America during the last glacial maximum. The model envisions these people making the crossing in small watercraft, using skills similar to those of the modern Inuit people, hauling out on ice floes at night, getting fresh water by melting iceberg ice or the first-frozen parts of sea ice, getting food by catching seals and fish, and using seal blubber as heating fuel.

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Supporters of the hypothesis suggest that stone tools found at Cactus Hill (an early American site in Virginia) indicate a transitional style between the Clovis and Solutrean cultures. Artifacts from this site are estimated to date from 17,000 to 15,000 years ago, although some researchers dispute their definitive age. Other sites that may indicate transitional, pre-Clovis occupation include the Page-Ladson site in Florida and the Meadowcroft rockshelter in Pennsylvania.

bluecuracao · 06-01-2007, 09:49 PM

The Smithsonian suggests that too--the "X factor" (long, but worth a read).

xoxoxoBruce · 06-01-2007, 10:43 PM

National Geographic Atlas of The Human Journey

Flint · 06-02-2007, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinx

Flint, I gotta say, I'm pretty disappointed with your point.

I'm not going to squabble over semantics. I don't have anything to say about archeology. I won't try to impress you with any fancy links or quotes I Googled to "prove you wrong" ... it doesn't have a thing to do with what I'm talking about here.

If you take a few steps back and look at the big picture, you might see all the meaningful discussions we could have had about the nature and origins of our American culture.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I don't see your name in that rhetorical question.
...
Does it serve us to state outright or imply, the Europeans prevailed because they were savages compared to the noble, peace loving, at one with nature, natives?

Am I allowed to respond to that one?

What I've been discussing is a comparison of primary historical sources (what people who were actually there wrote about what was happening at the time of our two cultures meeting) versus the feel-good narrative provided by history textbooks.

In answer to your question: an honest, balanced look at history would serve us best. Today, we don't have that.

xoxoxoBruce · 06-02-2007, 07:02 AM

You, like anyone, can respond to anything you feel you want to, but why bother to defend yourself against things you weren't accused of?

When you starting adding detail to K-12 history books, where do you stop?
If I was back in school, I'd be mad as hell if I had to read all those primary sources. There was quite enough crap I was expected to remember.

History text books are outlines of the subject. It's sufficient to say Jefferson wrote the constitution without speculating on his inspiration or comparisons to all the other systems in detail, until you're a college history major.

It would be naive to think the people writing those primary sources didn't have bias of their own, or were necessarily aware of parallel events impacting, or being impacted by, what they were witnessing. While they are the best description of the play by play, the effect on history sometimes isn't understood for decades or longer.

TheEdge44 · 06-02-2007, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

I agree with this but we have to work to stop all the institutionalized racism and white supremacy in the US today. It won’t completely go away until our society is totally racially integrated but we can still fix a lot of it now.

If you think whites are the only racists, you have a problem. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are two of the most racist people on the planet, but because they are black it's okay. Racism is racism no matter what color your skin is. For as much as so many blacks talk about how bad it is, they exhibit racist speach quite a bit and get away with it thanks to the Clinton administration.
Why didn't we see this in the news? If it were whites that killed two blacks the whole nation would shut down and some racist blacks like Sharpton and Jackson would be demanding a national day of mourning.

News Coverage? Not on your life!!!

There is no need to post the entire article when you already started a thread with it, just link it.
http://www.cellar.org/showthread.php...036#post350036

piercehawkeye45 · 06-02-2007, 09:31 AM

There are a few things you have to remember, all racism or discrimination (you can play with words) produced by blacks or minorities is in response to white supremacy. It is still bad but you can not attack a product, you have to go for the source.

Second, while blacks may get some media attention (I'm sure it can go the other way around as well...whites get more news coverage then blacks), they are still discriminated against in almost every respect in American society. The way we are raised and taught in schools, especially suburban, teaches whites to be white supremacist.

Every law that is supposed to help minorities is just a kick in the balls. AA helps white women more than minorities. Black History Month is a plain out insult. Hopefully you can agree that every month is white history month so we in return give them one? Why isn't every month black history month just like it is white history month?

The groups like NAACP, while I sometimes disagree on how extreme they can go, are, usually, trying to point out racism by whites like the situation with the "nappy headed hoes". Their "race" (I don't believe in race) has so many negative stereotypes that this will hurt them more because there aren't many negative stereotypes about whites.

If you want to play with definitions you can say that only whites can practice racism and blacks can only discriminate because only whites have the power to control people now. I don't totally agree with that but it works 95% of the time.

I really hope you don't believe that blacks have it easier than whites because of stupid things like the nappy headed hoe comment and the controversy that followed. The playing ground for blacks and whites are not even close to even so don't get too worked up over this.

The events you posted are tragic but it works the other way around like I mentioned before. I wouldn't classify anything you said as racism, just selective news coverage.

jinx · 06-02-2007, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

I'm not going to squabble over semantics. I don't have anything to say about archeology. I won't try to impress you with any fancy links or quotes I Googled to "prove you wrong" ... it doesn't have a thing to do with what I'm talking about here.

So you want to get technical, but not too technical... got it.
I'm sorry Flint, I wasn't trying to fuck up your thread, but it is some facinating shit... I didn't have to google - I've been follwing the Kennewick story for years. I'm pretty sure I've posted about it before too, in reference to McCain's pandering.
And I took my kid's to the PA State museum in Harrisburg a few weeks ago, where they have an exhibit (reconstruction) of the Meadowcroft rock shelter - I've been thinking about it, and how long man has been on this continent ever since.

So anyway, carry on, don't let me stop you from having your meaningful discussion.

06-02-2007, 03:37 PM

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because there aren't many negative stereotypes about whites.

AAAAaaahhaaaahahahahahahaah!!!!!

Cicero · 06-02-2007, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheEdge44

If you think whites are the only racists, you have a problem. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are two of the most racist people on the planet, but because they are black it's okay. Racism is racism no matter what color your skin is. For as much as so many blacks talk about how bad it is, they exhibit racist speach quite a bit and get away with it thanks to the Clinton administration.
Why didn't we see this in the news? If it were whites that killed two blacks the whole nation would shut down and some racist blacks like Sharpton and Jackson would be demanding a national day of mourning.

News Coverage? Not on your life!!!

There is no need to post the entire article when you already started a thread with it, just link it.
http://www.cellar.org/showthread.php...036#post350036

Yeah, I agree with Edge. I was working for Hurricane Relief and I saw some racism on both sides. I don't care really about where it all came from anymore. Yes, I'm aware of all the arguements and history. The fact remains:They were both wrong and I don't want to hand out excuses for this type of bad behavior to anyone anymore. I'm not going to go into any particulars of the incidents, but it was very political and very racist.
Did you know that some people here in New Mexico openly refuse to do business with white people? I was told by a client that they were going to give all their money to "their own kind". Yeah, I wasn't too happy.

Clodfobble · 06-02-2007, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

The playing ground for blacks and whites are not even close to even so don't get too worked up over this.

Correlation does not equal causation. In almost every single set of success/failure statistics gathered, the imbalance disappears when you control for socioeconomic status, not race. That is, the playing field is not level for poor people, not blacks. Solve the economic issues, and the perceived racism disappears.*

*As an example of how to do this, in Texas everyone who graduates in the top 10% of their class gets automatic admission to any state university. Doesn't matter if they graduated from the poorest ghetto high school and couldn't hold a candle to the bottom 25th percent of a rich suburban school. This way kids who do the best they can with the environment they're born into are given a chance to succeed, regardless of their race.

piercehawkeye45 · 06-03-2007, 07:30 AM

While I somewhat agree with you, when the poor schools are 98% non-white, it is very difficult to keep race out of it. It is very difficult to separate racism from classism today because you can make a racist law in the form of a classist law since a big majority of the poor are non-whites. White supremacy is still around and that can be seen because of white privilege.

Quote:

*As an example of how to do this, in Texas everyone who graduates in the top 10% of their class gets automatic admission to any state university. Doesn't matter if they graduated from the poorest ghetto high school and couldn't hold a candle to the bottom 25th percent of a rich suburban school. This way kids who do the best they can with the environment they're born into are given a chance to succeed, regardless of their race.

That is a very good idea. I am certain that racism in this country will go away when the classes (upper, middle, lower) are all racially integrated.

TheMercenary · 06-03-2007, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

There are a few things you have to remember, all racism or discrimination (you can play with words) produced by blacks or minorities is in response to white supremacy. It is still bad but you can not attack a product, you have to go for the source.

Second, while blacks may get some media attention (I'm sure it can go the other way around as well...whites get more news coverage then blacks), they are still discriminated against in almost every respect in American society. The way we are raised and taught in schools, especially suburban, teaches whites to be white supremacist.

Every law that is supposed to help minorities is just a kick in the balls. AA helps white women more than minorities. Black History Month is a plain out insult. Hopefully you can agree that every month is white history month so we in return give them one? Why isn't every month black history month just like it is white history month?

The groups like NAACP, while I sometimes disagree on how extreme they can go, are, usually, trying to point out racism by whites like the situation with the "nappy headed hoes". Their "race" (I don't believe in race) has so many negative stereotypes that this will hurt them more because there aren't many negative stereotypes about whites.

If you want to play with definitions you can say that only whites can practice racism and blacks can only discriminate because only whites have the power to control people now. I don't totally agree with that but it works 95% of the time.

I really hope you don't believe that blacks have it easier than whites because of stupid things like the nappy headed hoe comment and the controversy that followed. The playing ground for blacks and whites are not even close to even so don't get too worked up over this.

The events you posted are tragic but it works the other way around like I mentioned before. I wouldn't classify anything you said as racism, just selective news coverage.

You are drinking the Kool-Aid my friend. Blacks in the US do not want equality, they want to be the masters and make whites the slaves, only then will they be happy. I am all for equality, but role reversal and discriminatory behavior by large groups of blacks, reinforced by stereotypes that their black hommies have taught them are not the cause of The White Man Keeping Them Down. The only people keeping them down are the people who need to profit off of such situations, the Farakan's, Jessie Jackson's, and Sharpton's of the world. MLK would roll over in his grave if he could see how his great ideas have been bastardized by so called "civil rights" leaders of today. Blacks have no one to blame for their failure to take advantage of the opportunities afforded minorities in the US but themselves. Choose other very successful legal immigrants, and some illegal, and the examples of their ability to grab hold of opportunities and advance their own personal success abound. Stop playing the race card and tell them to make something of themselves.

piercehawkeye45 · 06-03-2007, 08:01 AM

Merc, please tell me you didn't mean the whole black population.

If you said some want to switch the roles around I would agree with you but from the people I've talked too, that is not true. Most just want equality and not to be discriminated against just as most whites want the same for them.

Quote:

Stop playing the race card and tell them to make something of themselves.

This is much easier said then done. To start from the bottom to get to top or even the middle is extremely hard for anyone. They have social pressures that are unheard of in most white schools and there is a feeling of hopelessness for many of their futures.

If you talk to kids in mostly white schools and ask them what they want to be in the future, many say doctors or lawyers while if you go to a mostly black school and ask the same age kids the same questions you will get more basketball players and rappers*. This is a prime example of a social force that is holding blacks down, not the poor, because of representation. It is a trap that will hurt them until something is changed.

It is our job to help get rid of the white supremacy and it is their job to take advantage of that when they do get an equal chance.

*I got this from an essay I read in English class this year. I tried to find the essay but I can’t, it may not be open to the public or I just can’t find it. It explained the struggles of minorities in America very well

TheMercenary · 06-03-2007, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Merc, please tell me you didn't mean the whole black population.

No, I don't mean to imply that anymore than you do when you make generalizations about the white population.

06-01-2007, 10:43 PM	#78
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	National Geographic Atlas of The Human Journey __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

06-02-2007, 07:02 AM	#80
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	You, like anyone, can respond to anything you feel you want to, but why bother to defend yourself against things you weren't accused of? When you starting adding detail to K-12 history books, where do you stop? If I was back in school, I'd be mad as hell if I had to read all those primary sources. There was quite enough crap I was expected to remember. History text books are outlines of the subject. It's sufficient to say Jefferson wrote the constitution without speculating on his inspiration or comparisons to all the other systems in detail, until you're a college history major. It would be naive to think the people writing those primary sources didn't have bias of their own, or were necessarily aware of parallel events impacting, or being impacted by, what they were witnessing. While they are the best description of the play by play, the effect on history sometimes isn't understood for decades or longer. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

06-01-2007, 09:49 PM	#77
bluecuracao in a mood, not cupcake Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 3,034	The Smithsonian suggests that too--the "X factor" (long, but worth a read).

06-02-2007, 09:31 AM	#82
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	There are a few things you have to remember, all racism or discrimination (you can play with words) produced by blacks or minorities is in response to white supremacy. It is still bad but you can not attack a product, you have to go for the source. Second, while blacks may get some media attention (I'm sure it can go the other way around as well...whites get more news coverage then blacks), they are still discriminated against in almost every respect in American society. The way we are raised and taught in schools, especially suburban, teaches whites to be white supremacist. Every law that is supposed to help minorities is just a kick in the balls. AA helps white women more than minorities. Black History Month is a plain out insult. Hopefully you can agree that every month is white history month so we in return give them one? Why isn't every month black history month just like it is white history month? The groups like NAACP, while I sometimes disagree on how extreme they can go, are, usually, trying to point out racism by whites like the situation with the "nappy headed hoes". Their "race" (I don't believe in race) has so many negative stereotypes that this will hurt them more because there aren't many negative stereotypes about whites. If you want to play with definitions you can say that only whites can practice racism and blacks can only discriminate because only whites have the power to control people now. I don't totally agree with that but it works 95% of the time. I really hope you don't believe that blacks have it easier than whites because of stupid things like the nappy headed hoe comment and the controversy that followed. The playing ground for blacks and whites are not even close to even so don't get too worked up over this. The events you posted are tragic but it works the other way around like I mentioned before. I wouldn't classify anything you said as racism, just selective news coverage.

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