New gun control: Shut down shops

[Flint]

This thread is a joke, and anybody who has their panties in a wad in here needs a reality check, with a two by four to the head. I know this is a hot-button issue for y'all, what with the looming specter of Hillary, gearing up her federal jackboots to disarm you so that your family can be murdered by crackheads that soft-on-crime Liberal judges have set free, etc.

...but seriously, folks. Can you read this part without laughing? Read it carefully. Slowly. Go ahead and read it a few times.

...as recently as 15 or 20 years ago, there were 250,000 licensed gun dealers in the United States.

Today, the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives told WND, there are 108,381, and if more cases involving dealers such as Red's Trading Post of Twin Falls, Idaho, develop, that number will plummet quickly.

Wait, did the Bureau actually say that, or was that Chicken Little? I'm so confused, the hard-hitting journalism has bedazzled me with a barrage of fact-like things!

There...used to be...a bigger number... now it's smaller... and now this other thing... OMG! I just put 2 and 2 together and it's time to freak out!

[xoxoxoBruce]

Ridicule all you want, there has been a concerted effort by the feds to control guns by paring the number of outlets to a minimum.

Perhaps because they are too lazy, or under resourced, to enforce the thousands of laws on the books, they have chosen to group the sources into fewer, more easily defendable, fortified, locations. This is because in case of "civil insurrection" or "national emergency", BATF assumes control and defense of all firearms sources.

This is the ultimate gun control and much easier to keep additional guns, and ammo, from flowing into the hands of the people, with only a few outlets to seize.

The problem for us is that fewer outlets reduces competition, increases prices, reduces selection and is generally bad business.

[TheMercenary]

Anyone who does not believe the likes of scumbags Pelosi, Cliton, Schumer, and Feinstein are not after you guns you are a fucking idiot... Well unless of course you agree with their agenda. This little group is about to turn the tables upside down. Whine about freedom of speech on the right hand, whine about the loss of freedoms as we attempt to kill terrorists on the left, kick the 2nd Amendment to the curb. Cherry picking Demoncrats in the finest form. Be careful what you vote for, you just may get it.

[wolf]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Cliton

Your Freudian Slip is showing.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by wolf

Your Freudian Slip is showing.

Actually a purposeful slip I like to use. She is not much more than a "little man in one's boat" to me. Rub it if you need it. Otherwise ignore it... D:

[Ibby]

I think having every OTHER amendment in the bill of rights trampled is worse than having just the second trampled. Lesser of two evils and all that.
Maybe that's just me.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Yes, that's just you.

[TheMercenary]

Ibram, How many guns do you own? I mean personally and all under the law...

[Ibby]

I am totally against gun control, though I don't own a gun, obviously.
But still, I think gun ownership is FAR from the most important right. Just about every other amendment is being used like toilet paper by this administration (I half expect them to start commandeering houses as barracks!)... but the second, of course, is untouched. I would MUCH prefer the opposite - though obviously, IDEALLY, then we could have BOTH gun rights and all other rights.

[redstradingpost]

Originally Posted by glatt

I don't care enough to dig for it myself, but I'm going to take anything Red's or its lawyers say with a grain of salt. They are the very definition of a biased party here.

Glatt, so do you think that were just making it up? Here are your stats: The number of dealers from 1994-2005 decreased nearly 80%. The number of revocations of licenses is up nearly 6 times from 2001-06. I welcome you to look it up for yourself, it is pretty disturbing. I wish the ATF would address it but they won't.

I would like to thank many of you for your comments and support, it really means alot!
Thanks,
Ryan Horsley
Red's Trading Post

[fargon]

The time has come for direct intervention. If they have not been shut down yet, I would say that when the ATF assholes show up at their door they should call the local police, and have them arrested for trespassing.
P.S. 19Apr76 I swore to uphold, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States of America, against all enemies foreign and domestic. So help me God!!!

[glatt]

Originally Posted by redstradingpost

Glatt, so do you think that were just making it up?

It's cool that you came to this thread.

I don't question the overall statistics of overall gun shops closings out there. What I question is your specific case. There are three relatively minor violations listed on your website, and you and your lawyers claim in the media that you are being shut down over just those three minor violations.

Are they the only three, or are you cherrypicking examples from a much larger list that may contain more serious infractions? Can you post the complaint (or whatever the legal document is called) that the government filed against you? Something that might tell their side of the story in this case?

I'm glad you are fighting the fight against the government here if you truly believe that you are in the right. The courts can sort it out. That's what they are for.

[Flint]

...as recently as 15 or 20 years ago, there were 250,000 licensed gun dealers in the United States. ...Today...there are 108,381...

Originally Posted by redstradingpost

... Here are your stats: The number of dealers from 1994-2005 decreased nearly 80%. ...

Those numbers don't match up. Over "15 or 20 years" the number dropped about 57%, but in 11 of those years, the number dropped almost 80%? Did the number actually increase around 20% in the first 4 to 9 years of the "15 to 20 years" and then drop sharply? Can I see a graph?

Originally Posted by redstradingpost

...so do you think that were just making it up?

Making WHAT up? Be specific.

[redstradingpost]

Originally Posted by glatt

Are they the only three, or are you cherrypicking examples from a much larger list that may contain more serious infractions? Can you post the complaint (or whatever the legal document is called) that the government filed against you? Something that might tell their side of the story in this case?

Glatt, Actually the 3 violations that they were being referred to were recent violations in the audit before last. The ATF has chosen to audit us several times since, the last audit which was last week produced 2 new violations:A customer not filling out the transfer date (he came in later and filled it in)A firearm that was logged in to our book was missing a digit in our acquisition book

The problem is that each time they come to audit us it generally costs us about $5,000. Here is the article from the last audit:
http://www.magicvalley.com/articles/...ate/114470.txt

Flint, here is the stats that I am referring to. This is also from an a Gun Control group that brags about the decrease in numbers of dealers:
http://www.vpc.org/press/0603dealers.htm

The reason that I am speaking up is not to draw more attention to my case because honestly we have become a bigger target but to make gun owners and the public aware of what is happening.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by redstradingpost

Glatt, Actually the 3 violations that they were being referred to were recent violations in the audit before last. The ATF has chosen to audit us several times since, the last audit which was last week produced 2 new violations:A customer not filling out the transfer date (he came in later and filled it in)A firearm that was logged in to our book was missing a digit in our acquisition book

The problem is that each time they come to audit us it generally costs us about $5,000. Here is the article from the last audit:
http://www.magicvalley.com/articles/...ate/114470.txt

So as I understand it from the article, there were a handful of audits between 1980 and March 1997. As a result of those audits, the agency shut you down, but a judge stayed that action in March, so you can stay open until it works its way through the courts. The ATF is apparently pissed now and is coming back looking for more evidence against you and generally making your lives miserable. The question I have, is what did they find that made them want to shut you down in the first place? It sounds like all the nit-picking examples you list have all come since they tried to shut you down. What did they find before then? Is there a serious infraction you aren't mentioning? Or have they been nit-picking all along?