Horrifying gang rape & assault on mother & son

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Hime

It seems likely to me that a 15-year-old could change a lot in three years separated from his friends, harmful family influences, and whatever drugs he was probably doing, with the help of therapy and treatment for any mental illnesses. People don't just come in "good" and "bad" flavors, they can be ill, confused, high, angry at the world, unable to understand right and wrong, etc. Many of these can be changed or treated. I'm not saying that the US criminal justice system as it stands is well-equipped to do that, but I think it should be.

I agree with this almost 100% but the problem is that prisons and juevy do nothing to change a person but just reject them from society which usually makes the problem worse.

[Hime]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

I agree with this almost 100% but the problem is that prisons and juevy do nothing to change a person but just reject them from society which usually makes the problem worse.

Yeah, that is the problem. My husband used to work in a jail, so I have a particularly grim view of how incarceration works in the US. Unfortunately, to my mind a lot of the problems come from the ingrained idea that bad things should happen to bad people -- unfortunately, having bad things happen to you frequently makes you an even worse person.

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by Hime

Yeah, that is the problem. My husband used to work in a jail, so I have a particularly grim view of how incarceration works in the US. Unfortunately, to my mind a lot of the problems come from the ingrained idea that bad things should happen to bad people -- unfortunately, having bad things happen to you frequently makes you an even worse person.

.................................what?!?

[xoxoxoBruce]

But now that jails are being farmed out to the lowest bidder, things will be much better. [/sarcasm]

[Hime]

Originally Posted by Cicero

.................................what?!?

A lot of people feel better with the idea that people they don't like are being punished with a very unpleasant life. However, a certain level of unpleasantness goes beyond "teaching a lesson" and can lead to increased personality problems.

Look at it this way: if a kid steals from the cookie jar and his parents make him sit in the corner, he might think "ok, I guess stealing from the cookie jar isn't worth it." If he does the same thing and his parents beat him black and blue, he's more likely to come away with some disturbed ideas about the world. The same is true, to a lesser extent, about adults -- a guy who goes to prison for selling a bit of pot is going to be "punished" in a way that is liable to turn him into a much more dangerous criminal.

[xoxoxoBruce]

This keeps popping up every time we get into a crime and punishment discussion. The drug users that deal a little to support their habit, enable them to buy wholesale, or help out their friends. They clog the courts and the jails... they also complicate the decision of what's fair and practical.

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

This keeps popping up every time we get into a crime and punishment discussion. The drug users that deal a little to support their habit, enable them to buy wholesale, or help out their friends. They clog the courts and the jails... they also complicate the decision of what's fair and practical.

I think it should come up often. It is bottle-necking the whole system, and in effect, robbing your average Joe Shmo of due process.

What about Mr. No Insurance- is it really imperative that we stir him in the same pot with the murderers and rapists? Yeah, lots of little clogs, like repeat traffic violations. My friend's son got caught on a warrant and put in the can for a jay-walking ticket......
What about the uuuummm......unsolved recent murders that happened in the area at that time? Dunno
Duh.
The mass of jay-walking infractions and parking tickets must have been too overwhelming.