How much is too much?

Jakeline · 03-11-2003, 08:26 PM

Okay, I'm going to spill my guts here, because I'm looking for a truly independant, outside opinion. I've asked my husband and friends for advice, but of course, they're going to side with me. So let's get on with it, shall we? I'm a really nice person. I think I'm too nice. That's my question. How much forgiveness / turning the other cheek is too much? At what point does one turn from being a nice person to being a pushover?

Exhibit A:
I take ballroom dancing. The teacher is a sexist asshole. Long story short, he pissed me off, I shot him a dirty look because he was being a dick, and he looked at my husband and said, "Look, she's getting sensitive." Instead of chewing him out, I sucked it up, and walked out of the class a few minutes later. He said, "You'll be back next week?" I simply said, "No." I wrote a letter to the city (this class is through the city) that was very well tempered and even handed. I stuck to the facts and was very fair about it.

Exhibit B:
My brother's wife anonymously wrote something very rude about me on a website. I wrote to my brother saying how hurt I was, and asked if he thought she was just being funny or she really felt that way. He forwarded the email to her, and she wrote a 4 page diatribe defending her actions. Instead of picking her email to shreds, I told her that I was over it (which I'm really not), I didn't want to talk about it (with her), and I wouldn't tell my sisters about the site (she said nasty things about them as well, and my sisters would not behave in such an even-mannered way.) I keep telling myself that she's not worth my time.

Exhibit C:
One of my husbands' friends is an asshole. He ignores me in conversation and when I add something to the conversation, he'll answer my question or comment while looking at my husband. He's also made some insulting remarks about my looks and intellegence. (He never makes these comments around my husband, because he would kick his ass.) Luckily, this jackass is only around once or twice a year. I've never said a damn thing back to him, rationalizing that he isn't worth my time.

So, whaddya think? Do I need to grow a pair and stop letting people treat me like shit? Or will my turning the other cheek serve me better in the long run?

Oh, and does anyone know how to make some really good voodoo dolls?

elSicomoro · 03-11-2003, 08:45 PM

The one thing I've learned from having been shit on a lot is to know where to draw the line. There's nothing wrong with being a genuinely nice person, but you can't let yourself be gullible.

Of course, the line is constantly shifting. You'll fuck it up sometimes, but after a bit of trial-and-error, you'll get it.

Furthermore, you have to pick and choose your battles. Sometimes, it's better for everyone involved if you let it go. But other times, it's a lot of fun to do battle.

Sorry...maybe that sounds a bit generic...but I like to keep things like that as simple as possible.

slang · 03-11-2003, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jakeline

Exhibit A:
I stuck to the facts and was very fair about it.

Exhibit B:
He forwarded the email to her, and she wrote a 4 page diatribe defending her actions.

Exhibit C:
One of my husbands' friends is an asshole. He ignores me in conversation and when I add something to the conversation, he'll answer my question or comment while looking at my husband.

A: That was very diplomatic and I would think it would be effective.

B: I would just ask him why he did that. That seems unfair if you sent it to him in confidence. You could create a small website yourself to vent also. Maybe photshop some pics of the people you are ticked at.

C: I would mirror his strange behavior and not look at him. Maybe look at your husband as you talk to him so as to illustrate how stupid and annoying that is.

When all diplomacy fails a good "hey....why dont you just go fuck yourself"* statement establishes the boundries in a memorable way. Be sure to increase your volume when using this method, it enhances the results.

*but then again I don't have any real friends, so there you go.

slang · 03-11-2003, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sycamore
But other times, it's a lot of fun to do battle.

(slang bitchslaps Syc....and runs away laughing)

elSicomoro · 03-11-2003, 09:30 PM

Just remember...you're being watched.

slang · 03-11-2003, 09:34 PM

ooh, sorry (I'm off topic again dammit)

Whit · 03-11-2003, 09:42 PM

     On the subject of picking your battles, you've got to know how much it will bother you later. Like A seems to have been settled, I may be wrong but you seem okay with it in the long run. In cases where you'll get over it easy it's easy to walk away.
     B however... C'mon tell me your not still pissed? Are you sure of your target though? Are you pissed at the wife or your brother. I don't even like my brother but I'd go off on anybody that slammed him without just cause. My point being that she may not be worth your time, but she may not be the cause of your aggravation. Going off on her may be pointless, calling your brother a spineless prick might make you feel better. It would probably be worth it too.
     As for C, dealing with people you dislike is one of those compromises you make in relationships. This being said have you not thought of referencing one of his comments in front of your husband? If your husband asks, which he should, quote the asshole to your husband while the asshole is standing there, then offer to go get them a snack from another room. The reason I suggest this is that I've been in your husbands position, it sucks. You wind up feeling like both people have been going behind your back. Obviously your buddy is out of line, but he's easy to deal with. The worse feeling is that your SO didn't trust you enough to tell you. So yeah, stand up for yourself or he's going to feel the same way. I just suggested that method because I think it might be particularly satisfying if you pulled it off right.
     Back to my original point, don't let stuff bug you for long, if it does do something about it. Like slang bitchslapping Sycamore, it'll make you feel good about yourself. See slangs smilie? Worth a shot anyway.

03-12-2003, 08:57 AM

Eh, Jenni is much the same way, in that she lets people walk all over her. She's gotten a lot better about it, mainly by my pushing.

a) I agree with slang; what you did was appropriate.

b) Again, I agree with slang - ask your brother what he was doing forwarding a private correspondence. Tell him that you're disappointed.

Talk to his wife and ask her what the problem is. My sister and Jenni had a kind of schism, and I approached her about it. More than likely, his wife feels hurt in some manner. Specific advice is hard to give here 'cause you haven't told us much about what she actually said, but I would definitely approach her. Be diplomatic and keep your cool, but ask her why she would say such hurtful things.

c) Talk to your husband about this and say "I'm uncomfortable when he's around. He's rude and I don't want to spend any time around him." Your husband doesn't need to have friends that, at the very least, don't respect you for being the love of his life. He's probably someone that both of you should avoid, and perhaps you should bring that up to your husband.

If you let people take advantage of you, they will. Stand up for yourself - because no one else is going to do it. You don't need to be rude or mean or pushy, but don't let other people pull that shit with you either. Polite but firm is the way to go.

Jakeline · 03-12-2003, 12:59 PM

I really appreciate all of your comments. I like the idea of making a site to photoshop pictures of all the people who piss me off.

But seriously, someone mentioned that I seemed okay with the whole asshole ballroom dance instructor guy. Totally true. I guess the problem I have is when people who know me treat me like that. That pisses me off.

What did the sister-in-law say? Basically that I scheduled our wedding before hers to purposefully upstage her, and that my sisters and I are all a bunch of rude bitches. Not in so many words, but that was the gist of it. In the email to my bro, I said that I could not defend any of my sisters' actions, but I personally never purposefully did a thing to harm her. The kicker? She posted this 3 1/2 years after our wedding. This mid-thirties self-professed feminist can't freaking just let it go that my wedding was a full two months before hers. (Oh, and our wedding had a total of 30 people invited and the reception was at a house.. theirs had over 100 people invited and was a HUGE deal.) What makes it worse is that my two sisters don't really like her, and treat her cooly, and I've been the one sister who has been genuinely kind to her.

Stop.. go to my happy place.. midgets and beer.. go to my happy place.

Honesly, after lots of introspection, I really have to ask myself whether people like this are worth wasting my time on. If she was just some random person, I could just cut off contact completely. No matter how much of a whipped little bitch my brother is, I still like hanging out with him, and don't want to have to stop it.

I'd like to just let it go, but it's hard. If it was anyone else, I would give them a piece of my mind. The fact that she felt she needed to write a thesis to defend her point of view shows me that any arguing I do will end up being long and protracted. I'm trying to be the adult here, rise above the situation, and all that bullshit.

But most of all, I don't want to stoop to her level and snit about her someplace she might find.... oops, too late.

03-12-2003, 01:15 PM

I'd sit down and be the bigger person. If she loses it or stops going off, say very calmly "_____, you're acting like a child. I am trying to be an adult and you are not working with me here. This anger you have hurts you. If you want to talk this over and work it out, and let go of all this animosity that you harbor toward me, please let me know."

Nothing will piss her off more than you being calm. So you have to stay calm.

She'll get irritated at herself that she can't upset you or break your calm, and hopefully one day she will realize that it's only hurting her. And hopefully you'll hear from her shortly thereafter.

Hang out with your brother, but let him know that his wife is out of line - and that it's hurting her. Get him on your side. Keep hanging out with him and realize that she is not important to the relationship you have with your brother. And be calm!

Don't worry about her - she doesn't matter, in the scheme of things. Be nice to her, even if she's shitty with you. Also, be calm.

Bitmap · 03-13-2003, 01:28 AM

I find carring a 45 with me and sticking it in the face of any asshole who bothers me very effective.

<img src="http://www.korteng.com/KWjpg/1911a1.jpg"width=288 height=174>

Seriously: I actualy don't know.. i'v never been in one of those situations. Is this because I'm a man? I know that I get really pissed off when people are condecending to me. I've come to blows in some situations. Your husband sounds like a nice guy but his pair may need a readjustment if your being treated that way(case A. B. & C.), by anyone; especialy if your hubby is watching it happen.

I'm just trying to understand the world a little better.

warch · 03-13-2003, 06:59 PM

Good advice dave.
A. good job.
B. First she's family. She's got some major shit, confidence issues. Its her. And its hard to feel sorry for someone being so annoying and childish, but she sounds pretty pitiful and hurting. You're the grownup and can take that role, call her on hurting your feelings,and reassure her that your scheduling was never meant to hurt her. calm and constructive. Then its hers to meet you there or not. And then youre done with this one. I'm sure there will be more- sounds like some layers of sister dynamics- Just call them as they come, direct to the source, and be the grownup. Maybe she'll relax and stop the defensive offense.

C. OK now. Assholes in the universe- I'd say not worth your time. Fuck you pal. Once Twice a year is once twice too much.
The troubling part is the friendship with your husband. Tell your husband what a hole he is, what hes said and done and that you dont want the rude asshole around you. If he wants to keep seeing the hole, he can do it on his own. If he doesnt take you seriously, then you've got serious respect issues at home. You deserve more from your partner.

slang · 03-13-2003, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bitmap
I find carring a 45 with me and sticking it in the face of any asshole who bothers me very effective.

I've come to blows in some situations.

Do you have any slangs in your family, we might be related

Beestie · 03-14-2003, 12:50 PM

A) The ballroom teacher has an issue with you yet he addresses your husband in putting you down.

B) Your S-I-L addresses her contempt for you to your brother who is complicit.

C) Your husband's friend gently ignore's you by answering your question to your husband.

I'm not a psychologist or anything but I think the similarities in the three incidents (you chose them out of all the one's that have happened to you) are interesting.

I don't really know how to interpret them but I think you need to send a message to your husband and brother TODAY that you are no longer going to take ANY shit from their friends, wives, teachers or THEY are going to have HELL to pay. Its a bluff but my gut reaction is that you allow yourself to feel hurt by others *via* the men you care about (hubby and bro) and somehow you have been encouraging this behaviour (subconsciously, to be sure).

I will venture a guess that when these things happen, you feel closer to your husband/bro even tho they do not come to your defense (which I also think is a problem although you did not state it).

03-11-2003, 08:26 PM	#1
Jakeline Disorderly Orderly Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 54	How much is too much? Okay, I'm going to spill my guts here, because I'm looking for a truly independant, outside opinion. I've asked my husband and friends for advice, but of course, they're going to side with me. So let's get on with it, shall we? I'm a really nice person. I think I'm too nice. That's my question. How much forgiveness / turning the other cheek is too much? At what point does one turn from being a nice person to being a pushover? Exhibit A: I take ballroom dancing. The teacher is a sexist asshole. Long story short, he pissed me off, I shot him a dirty look because he was being a dick, and he looked at my husband and said, "Look, she's getting sensitive." Instead of chewing him out, I sucked it up, and walked out of the class a few minutes later. He said, "You'll be back next week?" I simply said, "No." I wrote a letter to the city (this class is through the city) that was very well tempered and even handed. I stuck to the facts and was very fair about it. Exhibit B: My brother's wife anonymously wrote something very rude about me on a website. I wrote to my brother saying how hurt I was, and asked if he thought she was just being funny or she really felt that way. He forwarded the email to her, and she wrote a 4 page diatribe defending her actions. Instead of picking her email to shreds, I told her that I was over it (which I'm really not), I didn't want to talk about it (with her), and I wouldn't tell my sisters about the site (she said nasty things about them as well, and my sisters would not behave in such an even-mannered way.) I keep telling myself that she's not worth my time. Exhibit C: One of my husbands' friends is an asshole. He ignores me in conversation and when I add something to the conversation, he'll answer my question or comment while looking at my husband. He's also made some insulting remarks about my looks and intellegence. (He never makes these comments around my husband, because he would kick his ass.) Luckily, this jackass is only around once or twice a year. I've never said a damn thing back to him, rationalizing that he isn't worth my time. So, whaddya think? Do I need to grow a pair and stop letting people treat me like shit? Or will my turning the other cheek serve me better in the long run? Oh, and does anyone know how to make some really good voodoo dolls?

03-11-2003, 09:34 PM	#6
slang St Petersburg, Florida Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,423	ooh, sorry (I'm off topic again dammit) __________________ FTFF

03-11-2003, 09:42 PM	#7
Whit Umm ... yeah. Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 949	On the subject of picking your battles, you've got to know how much it will bother you later. Like A seems to have been settled, I may be wrong but you seem okay with it in the long run. In cases where you'll get over it easy it's easy to walk away.      B however... C'mon tell me your not still pissed? Are you sure of your target though? Are you pissed at the wife or your brother. I don't even like my brother but I'd go off on anybody that slammed him without just cause. My point being that she may not be worth your time, but she may not be the cause of your aggravation. Going off on her may be pointless, calling your brother a spineless prick might make you feel better. It would probably be worth it too.      As for C, dealing with people you dislike is one of those compromises you make in relationships. This being said have you not thought of referencing one of his comments in front of your husband? If your husband asks, which he should, quote the asshole to your husband while the asshole is standing there, then offer to go get them a snack from another room. The reason I suggest this is that I've been in your husbands position, it sucks. You wind up feeling like both people have been going behind your back. Obviously your buddy is out of line, but he's easy to deal with. The worse feeling is that your SO didn't trust you enough to tell you. So yeah, stand up for yourself or he's going to feel the same way. I just suggested that method because I think it might be particularly satisfying if you pulled it off right.      Back to my original point, don't let stuff bug you for long, if it does do something about it. Like slang bitchslapping Sycamore, it'll make you feel good about yourself. See slangs smilie? Worth a shot anyway. __________________ A friend will help you move. A true friend will help you move a body.

03-12-2003, 01:15 PM	#10
dave Guest Posts: n/a	I'd sit down and be the bigger person. If she loses it or stops going off, say very calmly "_____, you're acting like a child. I am trying to be an adult and you are not working with me here. This anger you have hurts <b>you</b>. If you want to talk this over and work it out, and let go of all this animosity that you harbor toward me, please let me know." Nothing will piss her off more than you being calm. So you <b>have</b> to stay calm. She'll get irritated at herself that she can't upset you or break your calm, and hopefully one day she <b>will</b> realize that it's only hurting her. And hopefully you'll hear from her shortly thereafter. Hang out with your brother, but let him know that his wife is out of line - and that it's hurting her. Get him on your side. Keep hanging out with him and realize that she is not important to the relationship you have with your brother. <b>And be calm!</b> Don't worry about her - she doesn't matter, in the scheme of things. Be nice to her, even if she's shitty with you. Also, <b>be calm</b>.

03-13-2003, 01:28 AM	#11
Bitmap Look who thinks he's clever Dan. Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Washington DC Metro Area. Fairfax city Posts: 226	I find carring a 45 with me and sticking it in the face of any asshole who bothers me very effective. <br><br> <img src="http://www.korteng.com/KWjpg/1911a1.jpg"width=288 height=174> Seriously: I actualy don't know.. i'v never been in one of those situations. Is this because I'm a man? I know that I get really pissed off when people are condecending to me. I've come to blows in some situations. Your husband sounds like a nice guy but his pair may need a readjustment if your being treated that way(case A. B. & C.), by anyone; especialy if your hubby is watching it happen. <i>I'm just trying to understand the world a little better.</i>

03-11-2003, 08:45 PM	#2
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	The one thing I've learned from having been shit on a lot is to know where to draw the line. There's nothing wrong with being a genuinely nice person, but you can't let yourself be gullible. Of course, the line is constantly shifting. You'll fuck it up sometimes, but after a bit of trial-and-error, you'll get it. Furthermore, you have to pick and choose your battles. Sometimes, it's better for everyone involved if you let it go. But other times, it's a lot of fun to do battle. Sorry...maybe that sounds a bit generic...but I like to keep things like that as simple as possible.

03-11-2003, 09:30 PM	#5
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Just remember...you're being watched.

03-12-2003, 08:57 AM	#8
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Eh, Jenni is much the same way, in that she lets people walk all over her. She's gotten a lot better about it, mainly by my pushing. a) I agree with slang; what you did was appropriate. b) Again, I agree with slang - ask your brother what he was doing forwarding a private correspondence. Tell him that you're disappointed. Talk to his wife and ask her what the problem is. My sister and Jenni had a kind of schism, and I approached her about it. More than likely, his wife feels hurt in some manner. Specific advice is hard to give here 'cause you haven't told us much about what she actually said, but I would definitely approach her. Be diplomatic and keep your cool, but ask her why she would say such hurtful things. c) Talk to your husband about this and say "I'm uncomfortable when he's around. He's rude and I don't want to spend any time around him." Your husband doesn't need to have friends that, at the very least, don't respect you for being the love of his life. He's probably someone that both of you should avoid, and perhaps you should bring that up to your husband. If you let people take advantage of you, they will. Stand up for yourself - because no one else is going to do it. You don't need to be rude or mean or pushy, but don't let other people pull that shit with you either. Polite but firm is the way to go.

03-12-2003, 12:59 PM	#9
Jakeline Disorderly Orderly Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 54	I really appreciate all of your comments. I like the idea of making a site to photoshop pictures of all the people who piss me off. But seriously, someone mentioned that I seemed okay with the whole asshole ballroom dance instructor guy. Totally true. I guess the problem I have is when people who know me treat me like that. That pisses me off. What did the sister-in-law say? Basically that I scheduled our wedding before hers to purposefully upstage her, and that my sisters and I are all a bunch of rude bitches. Not in so many words, but that was the gist of it. In the email to my bro, I said that I could not defend any of my sisters' actions, but I personally never purposefully did a thing to harm her. The kicker? She posted this 3 1/2 years after our wedding. This mid-thirties self-professed feminist can't freaking just let it go that my wedding was a full two months before hers. (Oh, and our wedding had a total of 30 people invited and the reception was at a house.. theirs had over 100 people invited and was a HUGE deal.) What makes it worse is that my two sisters don't really like her, and treat her cooly, and I've been the one sister who has been genuinely kind to her. Stop.. go to my happy place.. midgets and beer.. go to my happy place. Honesly, after lots of introspection, I really have to ask myself whether people like this are worth wasting my time on. If she was just some random person, I could just cut off contact completely. No matter how much of a whipped little bitch my brother is, I still like hanging out with him, and don't want to have to stop it. I'd like to just let it go, but it's hard. If it was anyone else, I would give them a piece of my mind. The fact that she felt she needed to write a thesis to defend her point of view shows me that any arguing I do will end up being long and protracted. I'm trying to be the adult here, rise above the situation, and all that bullshit. But most of all, I don't want to stoop to her level and snit about her someplace she might find.... oops, too late.

03-13-2003, 06:59 PM	#12
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	Good advice dave. A. good job. B. First she's family. She's got some major shit, confidence issues. Its her. And its hard to feel sorry for someone being so annoying and childish, but she sounds pretty pitiful and hurting. You're the grownup and can take that role, call her on hurting your feelings,and reassure her that your scheduling was never meant to hurt her. calm and constructive. Then its hers to meet you there or not. And then youre done with this one. I'm sure there will be more- sounds like some layers of sister dynamics- Just call them as they come, direct to the source, and be the grownup. Maybe she'll relax and stop the defensive offense. C. OK now. Assholes in the universe- I'd say not worth your time. Fuck you pal. Once Twice a year is once twice too much. The troubling part is the friendship with your husband. Tell your husband what a hole he is, what hes said and done and that you dont want the rude asshole around you. If he wants to keep seeing the hole, he can do it on his own. If he doesnt take you seriously, then you've got serious respect issues at home. You deserve more from your partner.

03-14-2003, 12:50 PM	#14
Beestie -◊\|≡·∙■·∙≡\|◊- Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Parts unknown. Posts: 4,081	I see an unusual pattern... A) The ballroom teacher has an issue with you yet he addresses your husband in putting you down. B) Your S-I-L addresses her contempt for you to your brother who is complicit. C) Your husband's friend gently ignore's you by answering your question to your husband. I'm not a psychologist or anything but I think the similarities in the three incidents (you chose them out of all the one's that have happened to you) are interesting. I don't really know how to interpret them but I think you need to send a message to your husband and brother TODAY that you are no longer going to take ANY shit from their friends, wives, teachers or THEY are going to have HELL to pay. Its a bluff but my gut reaction is that you allow yourself to feel hurt by others via the men you care about (hubby and bro) and somehow you have been encouraging this behaviour (subconsciously, to be sure). I will venture a guess that when these things happen, you feel closer to your husband/bro even tho they do not come to your defense (which I also think is a problem although you did not state it). __________________ ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦

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