Men Abortion and Choice

[yesman065]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

I thought you had custody, yesman? Is she not paying you, is that the issue?

No she isn't paying me - even if she did get a job I wouldn't take her money. We've been apart since Jan '06 and she is still living off other people - thats her way.

Long story short - I have custody now, but there was a period of time where she had it and I was paying support to her. The time I paid child support to her - between the physical custody change and the paperwork getting processed was several months. In THAT time I was required by law to pay support to her even though I physically had the kids. Once the paperwork was completed, I had obviously overpaid my child support obligation. Now I have a very large credit that I cannot get back for Dom Rel, nor can I now apply it towards her alimony.

[DanaC]

Yesman, the friends of mine who were shafted by the CSA were men. Basically, the idea of the CSA when it originally set up was that it would force 'deadbeat' dads to pay for their kids...problem is, mums were told they couldn't claim benefits if they refuse to say who the dad was...so many of them say they don't know. WE end up in a situation where the dads that the CSA have anything to do with are actually the dads who want to pay fo rtheir kids...but instead of coming up with an arrangents themselves with their partners (particularly if the partner is unemployed) they end up getting stung by the CSA for a massive proportion of their income. Totally unfair.

[Shawnee123]

Dang, alimony AND CS arrears? Where do I sign up?

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Seems to me because you are a sexist.

Also, another cannot make you feel something... you choose how you react emotionally to your environment.

I'm not even sure how to respond to your sexist remark........I'll just let that go......

I'm just really curious about where you are getting the other statement from. I'll need the quote.

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

The base issue here is how to allot an equal amount of input and responsibility to both parties, correct? I hate to say it, but I see no practical, legal way for a man to keep his child if the mother wants to terminate. Even if we could somehow remove a 4 week-old fetus from the mother and raise it to term either in vitro or in vivo using another parent organism, the mother could not be forced to undergo the required surgery no matter how minor. Our only option as men? Keep your slimeball radar on at all times and take a really close look at who you're about to go down on, she has all the power once the lights get turned back on.
What I do see as being a legitimate recourse for men, is the right to request the woman undergo an abortion if he cannot afford to pay child support. In this case the shoe is on the other foot ladies, if your economic situation is a case for termination, then his should be as well. If the woman refuses, then she must agree to shoulder the cost of the child. Ladies, take the same advise as in the first paragraph.


The injustice I see here is that the arguments for aborting the child in the case of the woman are considered irrelevant when applied to men.

Yea....here is a good reason why. Most men are trying to be irrelevant and not present when someone is pregnant. Anecdote: take it how you would like...
I saw this guy in a planned parenthood with his partner. I'm pretty sure she was there to abort. He got on his cell phone and started talking his partying drug-addicted gangster crap loudly right there in the lobby at 9:00 in the morning. The guy was drunk or high already and he was an older guy......Does anyone want to tell me that he should have the final say in what happens to a fetus? Or can we let her manage like he was obviously at least that smart to do?

Gee...I'm sure he gives all of this a lot of thought-that's after he does an eight ball and drinks a 40oz in between xbox games. Just because some of you men on here are more responsible than most.....you act like most men give this stuff a thought outside of how inconvenient the situation is. Not really. Call me a sexist or whatever....I don't care. Most men out there avoid even talking about this stuff until a woman "inconveniences" them by becoming pregnant. Their attitude: do whatever...but I hope you choose to do the thing that is going to take the least from me. A lot of times women get to see their partner's true colors when they become pregnant. It's called the asshole factor. She has to say to herself-Oh- I never would have had sex with you if I knew you were going to turn into a completely irresponsible evasive piece of dung......That said.....Consider that injustice.

Take a pregnancy and add a man. Recipe for an instant asshole. Men are just there to make it harder than it has to be which is why this is up for debate in the first place.

*Disclaimer* I am talking about a lot of men.......not all of them... so put your fists down.

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by Cicero

SNIP~ Men are just there to make it harder than it has to be which is why this is up for debate in the first place.

*Disclaimer* I am talking about a lot of men.......not all of them... so put your fists down.

never had a woman complain about it being TOO hard before.

[Stormieweather]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Seems to me because you are a sexist.

Also, another cannot make you feel something... you choose how you react emotionally to your environment.

I believe it's more along the lines of...you choose how you express and deal with your emotional reaction to external forces. Rage, rant, deny, suppress, acknowledge, explore, blame, attack, cry, self-pity, etc.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by yesman065

Once the paperwork was completed, I had obviously overpaid my child support obligation. Now I have a very large credit that I cannot get back for Dom Rel, nor can I now apply it towards her alimony.

Big question: was the money already disbursed to her, or is it sitting in the Domestic Relations coffers?

My husband was getting screwed by a situation just like that at one point--his employer had accidentally overdrawn the garnishment, and the domestic relations office would neither disburse the money to her as a credit for the next month or give it back. They insisted that they would simply hold onto the money until he (inevitably, was the implication) became behind on his payments, and then disburse it to her as a regular payment that he had missed (while still assessing him for arrears.) Worst case scenario, they assured him, he would get the money back in about 16 years when the child support obligation ended.

He called them every single day and harassed them until eventually they wrote him a check for the overage. If the money is physically in their hands and not hers, they can give it back if they want to.

[9th Engineer]

I saw this guy in a planned parenthood with his partner. I'm pretty sure she was there to abort. He got on his cell phone and started talking his partying drug-addicted gangster crap loudly right there in the lobby at 9:00 in the morning. The guy was drunk or high already and he was an older guy...

Are you going to try to convince me that he was different before she slept with him? The guy's an ass and has probably been an ass his entire life. Even if he pulled a nice guy routine, why was she fooled by a guy with the intelligence of a fish? She was dumb enough to sleep with a real prick and I hope she takes my previous advice and seeks out a normal, responsible guy (there are just as many as responsible women out there).

Take a pregnancy and add a man. Recipe for an instant asshole. Men are just there to make it harder than it has to be which is why this is up for debate in the first place.

No, I'm sorry. I don't know if you work in a women's crisis center or some other occupation which has isolated you from sane men, but trust me you're espousing an obviously skewed viewpoint of men.

you act like most men give this stuff a thought outside of how inconvenient the situation is.

Cite.

I have stated over and over and over and over that this would be rare.
You won't read and have shown this to be true constantly.
Just stop replying to my until you actually read my posts please.

[yesman065]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Big question: was the money already disbursed to her, or is it sitting in the Domestic Relations coffers?

She already got the money. At this point I believe my only recourse is to sue her for it. That has some additional implications that I would rather not have happen. For one she plays the victim VERY WELL and would play it off on the kids as "Daddy is attacking me ....see how mean he really is.... blah blah blah." I don't want my kids getting caught up in anymore of her insanity.

Are you going to try to convince me that he was different before she slept with him? The guy's an ass and has probably been an ass his entire life.

Boy that's another thread huh?
She meets this drunk guy at a party. Stays drunk with him for a month, party to bar to party, ends up moved-in with him and "in love".
Suddenly she's tha' "victim" because he is a drunk with no relationship skills?
Poor her! LOL!!!

[Stormieweather]

Often...abusive, manipulative, lying, no-good asses can be quite charming and personable when they want to. And they usually want to when trying to con someone into bed and/or marriage. I've known people to carry the facade for several years, if that's what it takes.

An insecure person, with low boundaries and low self esteem can easily fall for such nonsense because they buy into the bullshit. They excuse the glaring faults (lack of stability, anger issues, over controlling, deceptions) by saying they're not perfect either or by believing they are "the one" who will finally change this irresponsible, bad boy/girl into a good person. They find out it's never going to happen when they're good and trapped...maybe married (for better or worse), baby on the way or there, cut off from all sources of support and what little self esteem they had, completely demolished.

I strenously object to the generalization that any woman who gets pregnant unexpectedly is a slut, a party animal, or knew right up front that the person she was with was (or could be) an asshole.

I've also found that some of the seemingly nicest people can turn into completely amoral, vindictive, and cruel individuals, given the right trigger. You just never know until you're on the opposing side in a battle.

I strenously object to the generalization that any woman who gets pregnant unexpectedly is a slut, a party animal.
I don't think anyone in here made that characherization of women who get pregnant.
As far as the party animal statement... if he/she partied a lot, they knew.

That someone thought they could change someone is never an excuse to take a risk. In fact, it is sneaky and immoral.

[yesman065]

Originally Posted by DanaC

WE end up in a situation where the dads that the CSA have anything to do with are actually the dads who want to pay fo rtheir kids...but instead of coming up with an arrangents themselves with their partners (particularly if the partner is unemployed) they end up getting stung by the CSA for a massive proportion of their income. Totally unfair.

During my conversation with the senior official I could get to at Domestic Relations, whom shall remain nameless, he admitted that this was a very common situation for which "the system" has no answer. Shit, if it would help I'd donate my overpayment to a deserving mother/family.

{sidenote}Of course my money is already gone and my ex, who is getting "spiritually united" with a guy she's known less than a year already used it as a downpayment on a house. If she got married for real I wouldn't have to pay alimony either. Isn't that nice - I get to pay alimony for another three years instead of putting that money towards the children. Again a situation for which the system has no answer. {sidenote}