Bush's Shrinking Safety Zone

[DanaC]

I think it has something to do with dishonest politicians....which has something to do with Bush.

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by richlevy

Greenspan Book Criticizes Bush And Republicans

There are a lot of critics of Mr. Greenspan. He had a very important, very high profile job for a very long time. Economics is not a 'hard' science, so his decisions will be second guessed for a very long time.

He does, however, have a reputation for intelligence, honesty, and usually tactful silence. He spent decades trying to say as little as possible in public, knowing the consequences. Now that he is 'out of uniform' and being paid a healthy book advance, he is starting to talk.

A lot of respected former military and intelligence people have come out against Bush's military and intelligence decisions. Now here is one of the most well known economic policy makers in US history saying what many of us already guessed, that there was no long term thinking in the White House when it came to fiscal policy.

This should get interesting. I almost pity the talking head that tries to debate Greenspan.

This is probably the only book of it's genre that I think I could actually read easily. Greenspan has been around for so long. He's a smart man but an honest one too. Nice piece of history I suppose.

[tw]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

This is probably the only book of it's genre that I think I could actually read easily. Greenspan has been around for so long. He's a smart man but an honest one too. Nice piece of history I suppose.

Read Paul O'Neill's story - George Jr's Secretary of the Treasury. "The Price of Loyalty" was published in 2004. It demonstrates how incompetent the George Jr administration was so early on. Worse, it demonstrates how incompetent a president can be and so many citizens will just deny. Appreciate from that book - as also demonstrated by the Pentagon Papers - how so many will see facts and yet all but deny those facts.

Paul O’Neill was from the same circle of Republicans as Greenspan. The difference – it was not safe for Paul O’Neill to be so honest so early.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Spark

snip~ And I’ve seen those lists of participants with my eyes! ~snip

Welcome to the Cellar Spark.

How did these lists of participants get to Cochabamba?

[tw]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I think it has something to do with dishonest politicians....which has something to do with Bush.

When a president is corrupt, crime increases everywhere. Top management defined the 'attitude and knowledge'. Did we not learn from Nixon?

Military doctrine says the US needed 600,000 troops in "Mission Accomplished". Since the president is an MBA - a proverbial cost controller - America is so incompetent as to even use cost controls on military deployments. 40% of the US military equipment should be in Iraq. However nobody knows for sure due to cost controls. From the Washington Post of 20 September 2007 is but one example:

Pentagon Probes $6 Billion in Contracts
U.S.-led command training Iraqi forces did not have enough people in Iraq to properly catalog the thousands of weapons flowing into the country. As a result, the Pentagon does not know if the number of weapons that were destined for the Iraqis "were in fact transferred," he said. The issue first surfaced in May when Pentagon officials learned that Turkish officials were concerned that American-issued weapons were being used in violent crimes in their country. In July, Defense Secretary Robert Gates sent the Pentagon's top lawyer, William Haynes, to Turkey to hear the concerns.

Pentagon Inspector General Claude Kicklighter was subsequently directed to investigate the failures that led to the distribution problems. Gimble said that inquiry is one of his office's "highest priorities."

'Highest priority' is the high Cheney and George Jr get from spending money and wasting American soldier lives. As Cheney said, "Reagan proved deficits don't matter". Even drug dealers don't spend money so corruptly. Too few people meant we did not even know weapons are missing until the Turks complain? What happen to those 747 plane loads of $100 bills? Any good deals yet on a nuclear bomb?

No. Not very funny because some even in the Cellar still love scumbags in the George Jr administration who have so much contempt for the American soldier. Add to the list Democrats with no balls.

The patriot is even a bank robber because our leaders are that corrupt.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

For contempt for the American soldier, it is among the worst kept of secrets that tw is unmatched.

[queequeger]

His point was that it doesn't matter the intent of the 'american soldier,' they're no longer fighting for the security of their country, they're fighting for whatever special interests are popular at that time.

"You don't support the troops," "you hate american soldiers," "they need our support, not our dissent," blah fucking blah. I am sick and tired, exhausted even, at how many people talk so much much god damned bullshit about 'the american soldier.' They're people doing a job, and there's nothing more noble or ignoble than anyone else living their life.

They don't deserve excess scorn, or excess praise. Most of the people that I know that enlisted, did so for the GI bill, some steady cashflow, the benefits for their kids, and occasionally 'service to their country.' They're not all Toby Keith's painting of some soft spoken super hero. In fact, a bunch of them can be real shitbags. But then again, it's about the same percentage as every other group of people on this green earth.

If you live in this country, guess what? You pay their salaries, so you 'support' them. They get a pretty damn good wage and benefits (despite what they say), and while there are some that do it 'for god and country,' most are doing it as their job. I'm not saying there's something wrong with that at all, I'm saying you need to stop treating them like they're fucking Jesus come back to earth.

I'm tired of rhetoric, I'm tired of the same Foxnews-Pentagon-Channel-Dick-Cheney bullshit lines OVER AND OVER AND OVER. So just shut the flying hell up. I'm going to go puke now.

[BigV]

BRAVO!!

[DanaC]

Well said Queeq!

[Undertoad]

When you commit two years of your life of public service to our nation, two years which are your country's and not your own, I will support and thank you too.

Please let us know your plans.

they're no longer fighting for the security of their country

That is your opinion, and we all certainly hope you are right about that, but if you are or even if you're not, the military doesn't have a choice in the matter.

The troops go regardless of the rhetoric, and should be held in high regard regardless of the rhetoric.

[queequeger]

How about the four years that I'm currently serving? Is that enough? I do hold them in high regard, but no more than any other civil servant, teacher, plumber or any other job. I don't 'have contempt for the troops,' I am a troop, it just drives me up the wall (and to swearing at people, I guess) when people use me, most of my friends, my fiance, and my entire nuclear family as bargaining chips, or worse as some reason to squash public dissent.

Military members are no better or worse at their core than anyone you see on a daily basis, and shouldn't be treated or used as such.

[Undertoad]

Thank you for your service.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by queequeger

His point was that it doesn't matter the intent of the 'american soldier,' they're no longer fighting for the security of their country, they're fighting for whatever special interests are popular at that time.

"You don't support the troops," "you hate american soldiers," "they need our support, not our dissent," blah fucking blah. I am sick and tired, exhausted even, at how many people talk so much much god damned bullshit about 'the american soldier.' They're people doing a job, and there's nothing more noble or ignoble than anyone else living their life.

They don't deserve excess scorn, or excess praise. Most of the people that I know that enlisted, did so for the GI bill, some steady cashflow, the benefits for their kids, and occasionally 'service to their country.' They're not all Toby Keith's painting of some soft spoken super hero. In fact, a bunch of them can be real shitbags. But then again, it's about the same percentage as every other group of people on this green earth.

If you live in this country, guess what? You pay their salaries, so you 'support' them. They get a pretty damn good wage and benefits (despite what they say), and while there are some that do it 'for god and country,' most are doing it as their job. I'm not saying there's something wrong with that at all, I'm saying you need to stop treating them like they're fucking Jesus come back to earth.

I'm tired of rhetoric, I'm tired of the same Foxnews-Pentagon-Channel-Dick-Cheney bullshit lines OVER AND OVER AND OVER. So just shut the flying hell up. I'm going to go puke now.

Yea, you make some really good points... and on the same note don't forget that the door of perception swings both ways... Those damm good wages and benefits are for a good reason. Most people who are not in the military could never hack the lifestyle. Most marriages would never survive. I would venture to say that many wifes and husbands would divorce their partners after the first long azzed deployment of undetermined length. Most of us did as a job. But most don't do it just for the benies. None of us want to be treated like "Jesus come back to earth", far from it.

And I'm tired of rhetoric, I'm tired of the same MoveOn.org conspiracy theorist news-antiwar.com-Channel-GeorgefuckingSoros-NancythecuntPelosi-KenedyClintionclitlicker-bullshit lines OVER AND OVER AND OVER. So say what ever you want, but we are sick of it too. I'm going to go puke now as well.

[queequeger]

Absolutely, I don't mean to imply that the anti-war side uses it any more than the pro-war, it makes me sick either way.

And I don't think military service is so hard most can't take it, I think everyone that joins expects and is therefore ready for on-call-at-all-times and deployments. But then again, I'm in the air force: inventors of the air-conditioned tent city.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by queequeger

Absolutely, I don't mean to imply that the anti-war side uses it any more than the pro-war, it makes me sick either way.

And I don't think military service is so hard most can't take it, I think everyone that joins expects and is therefore ready for on-call-at-all-times and deployments. But then again, I'm in the air force: inventors of the air-conditioned tent city.

Got ya. I was 20 years Army and loved it. I tell my kids not to go into the Army unless they are going SF (son). My youngest dau may go in the AF after college. All good stuff. One thing is for sure, they will have health insurance while on AD and that is more than most can say about the current job market.