Bush's Shrinking Safety Zone

[queequeger]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

I thought the man was just plain weird myself -- until I noticed his pattern: he sounds exactly like Soviet press releases about US foreign policy back in the day.

And you sound like Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity had a baby. So Ali's right, you cancel each other out.

[queequeger]

But for the record... aside from TW's incredible use catch phrases and sound-bite-type speech patterns, I agree with 90% of what he says...

And communism isn't an insult, it's a form of gov't.

[tw]

From the NY Times of 12 Oct 2007:

Former Top General in Iraq Faults Bush Administration
In a sweeping indictment of the four-year effort in Iraq, the former top American commander called the Bush administration’s handling of the war incompetent and warned that the United States was "living a nightmare with no end in sight."

In one of his first major public speeches since leaving the Army in late 2006, retired Lt. Gen. Ricardo S. Sanchez blamed the administration for a "catastrophically flawed, unrealistically optimistic war plan" and denounced the current "surge" strategy as a "desperate" move that will not achieve long-term stability.

General Sanchez is the most senior in a string of retired generals to harshly criticize the administration's conduct of the war. ...

"There was been a glaring and unfortunate display of incompetent strategic leadership within our national leaders," he said, adding later in his remarks that civilian officials have been "derelict in their duties" and guilty of a "lust for power."

The White House had no initial comment.

Questioned by reporters after his speech, he included the military and himself among those who made mistakes in Iraq, citing the failure to insist on a better post-invasion stabilization plan.

But his main criticism was leveled at the Bush administration, which he said he said has failed to mobilize the entire United States government, other than the military, to contribute meaningfully to reconstructing and stabilizing Iraq.

Which brings us right back to the Iraq Study Group - a comprehensive solution that required immediate action by most every part of the US Government. But that required an MBA and wacko extremists to even acknowledge a problem exists and is not being solved. Since so many even in the Cellar remained so quiet, well, now every "Mission Accomplished" alternative is even worse. Denial remains widespread. Just as during Nam, so many of us remain silent - tacitly support even worsing conditions. The overwhelming silence by the American public - Deja vue Nam.

George Jr got exactly what he wanted - just as Nixon did. He got the mess dumped on someone else's lap. George Jr does not care how many he murders as long as his legacy is protected. "Mission Accomplished" was not lost by George Jr.

Estimates now put "Mission Accomplished" at another 10 years. Even the most optimistic numbers are another 6 years. Less only if Americans wake up to the realities. We didn't in Nam because we let wacko extremist propaganda create fear - those mythical Dominos. We even invaded Cambodia and made that country unstable. How long before our wackos call for attacks on Iran or Syria? Deja vue Nam complete with so many even here who are unwilling to grasp the reality of not leaving now. That number well proven in history especially when the invading Army violates every principle of Military Science. At least with a withdrawal, Iraqis have 20 months to decide - or die - complete with the only way to minimize a disaster - the Iraq Study Group.

Stupidity is not limited to "Mission Accomplished". Did you notice today a fundamental warning from Russia that America is slowly pushing the world back into a Cold War? It was no mistake that Rice and Gates were left to sit on their ass for so long. It was a message right to you. Did you hear it?

A long list of top Generals from Iraq (10+ now?), retired, and now publically blame the mental midget administration. No way around these realities. He is making messes well beyond Iraq - and Urbane Guerrilla approves. Things are that bad.

The Marines may have found a way to get out of an unwinnable conflict. They are asking to be deployed only to Afghanistan. Remember that other war where Goerge Jr / Cheney et al all but protect bin Laden? So when are we going after bin Laden? Well at least the Marines will not be fighting where they cannot win.

"A nightmare with no end in sight." Deja vue Vietnam where the most unAmerican Americans once said if we leave, then it will only get worse. Guess what. It was called, "I see light at the end of the tunnel". That light was a locomotive closing fast. We did nothing - just stayed - and it only got worse. America then created the death of maybe another 1 million. We could not fathom a bad decisions was by far our best alternative. We have to massacre more good men to finally concede reality? Deja vue Nam.

Currently the surge is blamed for a reduction in American deaths. How curious. The same logic also was used after Tet to proclaim America was winning the war. Deja vue Nam.

Just because you don't like the consequences justifies doing nothing? Find me an American commanding general from Iraq who publically supports "Mission Accomplished"? You cannot. That is the brutal reality of a war that cannot be won especially when Iraqis don't even know what they want.

Meanwhile, another bombing just occurred in Kirkuk. As Holbrook (and other people with intelligence) warned, Kirkuk could be the irreversible flash point.

How long is that list of top American generals, all commanding in Iraq and now retired, who are telling Americans to wake up - to be patriotic.

Batiste Newbold Eaton Pace Riggs Swannack Scales Shinseki ... and now Sanchez
Rumsfeld Rebuked By Retired Generals
Bush's Shrinking Safety Zone

Especially significant is Batiste who was regarded as a sure bet for Joint Chief. He turned down a third star - considered the biggest promotion in a lifetime - because his principles were stronger than his ambitions.

How many notice the bombings in Kirkuk. How many noticed American approval among a former topmost ally, Turkey, is now down to 11% according to the lastest German Marshall Fund poll. Why are people now asking when Turkey may invade Iraq?

But things are getting better in Iraq according to a very effective White House propaganda machine. Effective because so many, even here, cannot get beyond the sound bytes - start facing reality.

If we leave, then they will have to take charge of their own lives. If we leave, Iraqis will have 20 months to do it - or inherit the conseuqences. Currently they will do nothing for the next 10 years. Deja vue Nam.

At what point does anyone here say, "Fool me twice, shame on ...".

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by queequeger

But for the record... aside from TW's incredible use catch phrases and sound-bite-type speech patterns, I agree with 90% of what he says...

And communism isn't an insult, it's a form of gov't.

That form of government is an insult, at least to the free adult humans and nearly as much to the sorta-kinda. S'matter, Queequeger, aren't you a free adult human? Aren't you a free man? If so, tw does not speak in your interest, as a review of his posts will tell you.

Anyone who thinks he could bother me by telling me I sound like either Ann or Sean or both -- is a person with values so peculiar as to be nearly unrecognizable as such. I've got enlightened views; what can I say?

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by tw

From the NY Times of 12 Oct 2007:
General Sanchez is the most senior in a string of retired generals to harshly criticize the administration's conduct of the war.

Up until yesterday, your considered opinion was that Sanchez was criminally incompetent.

[queequeger]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

That form of government is an insult, at least to the free adult humans and nearly as much to the sorta-kinda. S'matter, Queequeger, aren't you a free adult human? Aren't you a free man? If so, tw does not speak in your interest, as a review of his posts will tell you.

Anyone who thinks he could bother me by telling me I sound like either Ann or Sean or both -- is a person with values so peculiar as to be nearly unrecognizable as such. I've got enlightened views; what can I say?

I guess that just depends on your point of view. Ann Coulter doesn't believe that women should be allowed to vote. Ann Coulter believes the reason we have no responsibility to our environment is because of GOD. Sean Hannity thinks that because a member of congress is Muslim, he is 'with the enemy.' They both blither on and on about personal freedoms, but what it amounts to is the strong taking from the weak. Now, if you honestly agree with the minds that think these things up, that doesn't make you enlightened. That makes you an asshole.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Up until yesterday, your considered opinion was that Sanchez was criminally incompetent.

The only assumption of criminal incompetence is yours. Sanchez was clearly not ready for the job. But he was the only one that George Jr's administration (apparently) could get.

Amazing how Rumsfeld could not find another General with experience necessary to command at the Corp level.

Sanchez now joins numerous others (including me as one of the earliest informed) to declare incompetence at the highest levels in George Jr's administration. Only someone who should remain on the street as a starving painter would disband the army and police. How many years ago was that stupidity even noted in The Cellar? Sanchez also accuses George Jr's administration of creating those problems.

Only a fool would not appreciate 'unity of command' - another simplest concept of military science. A concept violated in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Sanchez now publicly criticized the source of problems that were forced upon his by wacko extremists - better called mental midgets. He was even denied 'unity of command'. Who here does not realize that means complete incompetence in Washington DC.

Sanchez "who was too far from ready to have such a command" (note the exact quote) clearly did not have sufficient experience to be the top commander. Does that imply that Sanchez is incorrect about the worst American president in 100 years? Of course not.

Sanchez's mistakes (and lessons he learned) AND balls to make his statement only further proves George Jr and conspirators are that incompetent. Criminally? Well if more Americans supported America rather than political agendas, we would be impeaching both George Jr and Cheney - with extreme bias.

Sanchez was put into a position where success was not an option because his civilian bosses were that anti-American. Are you reading controversy about that in the Army War College in Ft Leavenworth KS? You should. Shinseki was the only top commander to accurately speak out - to defend the military and the American soldier. If you think you know what I am thinking, again don't make assumptions such as "criminally incompetent".

As anyone with basic military knowledge knows: unity of command in theater must exist. There was none because, well, Armitage said it best:

... these guys never heard a bullet go by their ears in anger. These guys never heard a bullet! None of them ever served. They're a bunch of jerks. ...

"Those remarks were aimed at everybody,' Wilkerson said, "including the president."

Larry Wilkerson was Colin Powell's chief of staff.

None of this is about Sanchez or about what UT misinterpreted. This is about people so corrupt that they should resign as President and Vice President - and then publicly apologize to the world for being so stupid.

But again, who is reading the controversy flaying so hot in KS?

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by queequeger

I guess that just depends on your point of view. Ann Coulter doesn't believe that women should be allowed to vote.

Sounds like you skimmed through Godless, all right. Coulter's remark was more in the nature of an observation than a condemnation, and it was this: "women's issues" have come considerably more to the fore in US government action and policy since 18 August 1920, when half the national electorate was of the feminine persuasion. I'm quite unaware of any refusal by Ann Coulter to vote, in the past or nowadays. Doesn't add up to what you think it does, unless I am very much in error about her.

Ann Coulter believes the reason we have no responsibility to our environment is because of GOD.

She believes in our dominion, yes. Says so loudly. That is not the same as believing in "no responsibility." Especially not in this day and age. Remember what sort of people Ann Coulter annoys, and remember these people can't touch her. So they'll tell you all kinds of dubious rumors about her, in hopes of cheating their way back into an opinion dominance they should never have had in the first place.

Certainly it's not the kind of idea I would accept, for dominion, such as it is, must be coupled with stewardship, and intelligent stewardship at that. I don't think you'll find hostility towards stewardship of our globe in Coulter's writing.

Sean Hannity thinks that because a member of congress is Muslim, he is 'with the enemy.'

I wouldn't know -- and I get quite a bit of Sean Hannity by both TV and radio.

They both blither on and on about personal freedoms, but what it amounts to is the strong taking from the weak.

No doubt somebody's told you that's what it amounts to... I've heard them out on these matters in a general way for years now, and can't point to anything indictable as "the strong taking from the weak." I've not only heard Hannity, I've read him, and nothing in his writing raises any Libertarian warning flags, even though he's more a Republican than a Libertarian.

Basically, I'd advise you stop listening to leftists. They don't want a Republic, they suffer from the tyranny of PC non-think, et cetera. Many and deep are their sins.

Now, if you honestly agree with the minds that think these things up, that doesn't make you enlightened. That makes you an asshole.

I gotta tell ya: I don't think you know the material.

[Aliantha]

UG, have you checked out the philosophy forum today?

If not, you should have a look.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Really? Neato... probably better do it tomorrow night, though. Real philosophy needs careful reading, the good old mark, learn, and inwardly digest. It's late, so late it's early, and I've a busy day tomorrow daytime.

[queequeger]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Coulter's remark was more in the nature of an observation than a condemnation, and it was this: "women's issues" have come considerably more to the fore in US government action and policy since 18 August 1920, when half the national electorate was of the feminine persuasion.

"I think [women] should be armed but should not [be allowed to] vote."---Politically Incorrect, 2/26/01

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

She believes in our dominion, yes. Says so loudly. That is not the same as believing in "no responsibility."
~snip
I don't think you'll find hostility towards stewardship of our globe in Coulter's writing.

"God gave us the earth. We have dominion over the plants, the animals, the trees. God said, 'Earth is yours. Take it. Rape it. It's yours.'"---Hannity & Colmes, 6/20/01...

That sounds kind of like lack of responsibility to me.

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

No doubt somebody's told you that's what it amounts to... I've heard them out on these matters in a general way for years now, and can't point to anything indictable as "the strong taking from the weak." I've not only heard Hannity, I've read him, and nothing in his writing raises any Libertarian warning flags, even though he's more a Republican than a Libertarian.

Admittedly, Sean Hannity is not as ridiculous Coulter, because she is possibly the craziest person to ever appear on television, but they're both just plain mean people. They care little about the rest of the country, and less about the rest of the earth. You can talk all you want about 'the left' (by the way, I don't just listen to them, I AM on the left), but acting out of compassion is not weak. In fact, it's a little more difficult and complicated than using a 'fuck it, blow it up' mentality.

I don't know who said it, but I fully agree with the sentiment that anyone can use violence. Physical bravery is a lot easier than moral bravery.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Having read all of Coulter's books save her latest rock into the waters -- If Democrats Had Brains, They'd Be Republicans -- I say those two lines are both satirical, and at variance with the body of her work.

Some pundit of her competition has told either Hannity or O'Reilly on their programs on TV that Coulter is no historian. On what evidence, the guy didn't bother to say, and Coulter seems pretty diligent at getting her primary sources right and carefully footnoted, so I am skeptical of the remark. Her work may end up being an aid to historical research of our times at the least.

One thing Coulter isn't is a natural-history scientist. I know enough science myself to recognize her chapters in Godless polemicizing against evolution are worthless; it's too bad she doesn't know this field.

The less you listen to the Left the wiser you'll be -- the record of the last forty years demonstrates this well enough to persuade me. Watching the behavior of the Democratic Party for maybe ten years less -- well, I agree with the book title. The Dems' senior leadership is short on wisdom.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

In the interest of complete accuracy, make it If The Democrats Had Any Brains...

And hunting around for excuses to reject Coulter's message... well, that's a fool's errand. Don't run on it unless foolishness is your only mode.

[xoxoxoBruce]

It's Coulter, accuracy, complete or otherwise, doesn't enter into it.

[DanaC]

Women like Coulter really piss me off. The battles that our foremothers fought to get rights like voting, and equal pay (still not quite there) and bitches like this do the patriarchy's work for it. Fuck, that annoys me. Frankly, the woman should be surrounded by a mob of angry, liberated, modern women and have her hair shaved off like the collaborators in German occupied France. Fucking traitorous bitch.