Robotic War Ships

xoxoxoBruce · 10-10-2007, 09:15 PM

From Wired.

Quote:

The Navy has just released its "Master Plan" for robotic ships -- "unmanned surface vessels," in sailor-speak.The idea is to produce a whole bunch of these USVs, to help fight "the Global War on Terror, Irregular Warfare, and conventional campaigns." And to give guns to as many of these sea-bots as possible.

The Navy wants to develop four main classes of USVs. Three of them would be armed.

The three-meter long "X-Class" machines would be for "low-end" snooping and reconnaissance; like a robotic jet ski, with a camera attached.

The "Harbor Class" would be based on the Navy's seven meter long rigid-hulled inflatable boats, or RIBs. These unmanned Zodiacs would be used for dropping mine countermeasures, and fending off boat-borne bad guys with a mix of "lethal and non-lethal armament."

The "Snorkeler Class" is a stealthy, seven-meter submersible that would stay in the water for up to a day at a time, towing mine- and sub-finding-gear -- and maybe even carrying a torpedo or two.

Lastly, there's the "Fleet Class," capable of staying in the water for 48 hours straight, and reaching speeds of up to 35 knots. The eleven-meter long USV would be used to do everything from carrying commandos to shore, jamming enemy communications, neutralizing mines, and delivering a "Harbor Class" drone. Naturally, it would carry its own guns and torpedoes, too, so it could conduct 'high end' surface warfare missions."

Along with the autonomous aircraft and land vehicles planned, the Pentagon can run a whole war, right from their desks.
This scares the hell out of me.

At one time I worried about the professional army, and these robot weapons, carrying on secret wars without our knowing. But the internet has pretty much killed that worry... we'd know.

The worry that hasn't abated, is they will be used on us.

Flint · 10-10-2007, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

The worry that hasn't abated, is they will be used on us.

Some people subscribe to the "if it's only used on the bad guys then we have nothing to worry about" - but the problem is, what if you find yourself, one day, defined as one of the bad guys? Things like government spying tools (and robot armies) don't just go away when different politicians get elected; when different laws, that you may or may not agree with, get passed, and you find that you can't even hide in the sanctuary of your own home and do what you want.

lumberjim · 10-10-2007, 09:42 PM

I thought the Terminator was a fictional piece? I see it coming down the road in blue jeans and a cowboy hat.

Clodfobble · 10-10-2007, 10:30 PM

"And when they grab you with their metal claws, you can't break free. Because they're robots, and they're made of metal."

Flint · 10-10-2007, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

"And when they grab you with their metal claws, you can't break free. Because they're robots, and they're made of metal."

...and robots are strong."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Show

Here's a simple test to determine if your child is a robot - hit him in the head with a hammer.

mem · 10-16-2007, 10:40 PM

Autonomous killing machines.
And there were those who complain about contractors and non-military targets. Computers have poor judgment at best when making self determining decisions , and giving them the power of life and death is an overstretched delegation of power. Furthermore, human life is far too precises not to be taken without remorse.
This will end well, just like the movies.

ZenGum · 10-17-2007, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mem

Autonomous killing machines.
And there were those who complain about contractors and non-military targets. Computers have poor judgment at best when making self determining decisions , and giving them the power of life and death is an overstretched delegation of power. Furthermore, human life is far too precises not to be taken without remorse.
This will end well, just like the movies.

Welcome to the Cellar, Mem!

I am also worried about this issue. Haven't these fools seen any science fiction movies? The robots always turn on us. Why the hell are we arming them?

But seriously, malfunction, mis-identification, poor programming ... there is so much that can go wrong.
I guess the appeal is the hope that there will be fewer flag-draped coffins. But the other side is that pollies will find it easier to go to war.

glatt · 10-17-2007, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenGum

But seriously, malfunction, mis-identification, poor programming ... there is so much that can go wrong.

Even when they are programmed well, operator error will always sneak in.

From today's Washington Post:

Quote:

NTSB Cites Lax Safety Controls, Pilot Error in Ariz. Drone Crash

By Del Quentin Wilber
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, October 17, 2007; Page A05

Sophisticated computer systems on a 10,000-pound unmanned drone were no match for its pilot's failure to follow a checklist when confronted with a computer glitch.

The mistake set off a chain of events that led the $6.5 million Predator-B to smash into the Arizona desert near Nogales, Ariz., the National Transportation Safety Board concluded yesterday. The NTSB also cited poor oversight by Customs and Border Protection officials as a factor in the April 2006 crash.

It was the first accident involving an unmanned vehicle that the NTSB investigated, and board members said they hoped their findings would prod government officials and the industry to regulate the growing use of drones in civil airspace.

xoxoxoBruce · 10-17-2007, 09:15 PM

The sky is falling... it really is.

Flint · 10-17-2007, 10:07 PM

Where's Undertoad to tell us that everything will just sort of work itself out somehow...move it along folks...nothing more to see here?

ZenGum · 10-17-2007, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

Even when they are programmed well, operator error will always sneak in.

Worse, these unmanned ships aren't drones (which have operators back at base) but rather are autonomous. They make their own decisions, without a human in the loop. Which, when they also have firepower, gives a whole new level of meaning to "the blue screen of death".

It also occurs to me, that they'd make great scapegoats for when things go wrong. "A military spokesman acknowledged the deaths of the 800 civilians, but explained that it was due to a series of mis-identifications by battle-bots. No one is to blame, and no-one can or will be charged. Nevertheless, we regret the incident..."

Flint · 10-17-2007, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenGum

It also occurs to me, that they'd make great scapegoats for when things go wrong. "A military spokesman acknowledged the deaths of the 800 civilians, but explained that it was due to a series of mis-identifications by battle-bots. No one is to blame, and no-one can or will be charged. Nevertheless, we regret the incident..."

Holy Shit.

mem · 10-19-2007, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

Holy Shit.

This level of disregard of human life can only be described as evil.

mem · 10-19-2007, 02:59 PM

Sorry for the double post but I can't edit yet. The quote should have been ZenGum's post

lookout123 · 10-19-2007, 06:16 PM

Wow, I'm not sure if we want to use this contractor for our robot ships.

http://www.switched.com/2007/10/19/n...00010000000001

10-10-2007, 09:42 PM	#3
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	I thought the Terminator was a fictional piece? I see it coming down the road in blue jeans and a cowboy hat. __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

10-17-2007, 10:07 PM	#10
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	Where's Undertoad to tell us that everything will just sort of work itself out somehow...move it along folks...nothing more to see here? __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

10-19-2007, 06:16 PM	#15
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	Wow, I'm not sure if we want to use this contractor for our robot ships. http://www.switched.com/2007/10/19/n...00010000000001 __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

10-10-2007, 10:30 PM	#4
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	"And when they grab you with their metal claws, you can't break free. Because they're robots, and they're made of metal."

10-16-2007, 10:40 PM	#6
mem infectiously deliciouses Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: hiding in your closet Posts: 5	Autonomous killing machines. And there were those who complain about contractors and non-military targets. Computers have poor judgment at best when making self determining decisions , and giving them the power of life and death is an overstretched delegation of power. Furthermore, human life is far too precises not to be taken without remorse. This will end well, just like the movies.

10-17-2007, 09:15 PM	#9
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	The sky is falling... it really is.

10-19-2007, 02:59 PM	#14
mem infectiously deliciouses Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: hiding in your closet Posts: 5	Sorry for the double post but I can't edit yet. The quote should have been ZenGum's post

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