Perspective on the US from an expat working in China

[Cicero]

Because I didn't warm up to him right away.

[classicman]

nor I to you, but there is an old aying the slower starting fire burns long and deep.

[Cicero]

Did it just get like 10 degrees hotter in here?!? Someone open a window...

wow...*clears throat*


This topic just got really good.....

[classicman]

LOL - you started it!

OK, thats a lie.

[ZenGum]

Ok, but I'm claiming cupid credit.

[classicman]

It's over - I'm out! - - - - Actually I think she was insinuating of her attraction to you Zen, not me!

[Cicero]

lol!!

Well let me know when you guys come up with something on that...

[classicman]

[quote=Cicero;413813]Because I didn't warm up to him right away.
[quote]

note the italicized "HIM" in your post. I'm too old and spoken for anyway.

[Shawnee123]

Damn, I was waiting for the romantic running down the beach culminating in passionate love-making. This movie sucks.

[Cicero]

Me too...but Zen and Classic just won't do it.....


Italics...yes...italics.

[Riddil]

WOW, man, I'm really sad that I got too busy at work these days to read & respond. I missed a lot.

Hehe... it seems I REALLY struck a nerve with Cicero. I really enjoyed the whole "student stringing words together while teachers applaud" thing, that's really great.

Anyhow, I know I'm not an expert in that field. I'm just some guy on the internet posting my opinion. I didn't start my post saying, "I'm a Harvard trained socio-politico-environment-business wig-wam doo-dah theorist". I'm just a dude working on assignment in China.

But, you may want to read "The World is Flat". It's an interesting book that talks about what America needs to do to try to stay competitive in the changing world.

Anyhow, I'm grateful I had so much help from folks in this thread to backup my intent. Aliantha and others really said it all for me. Thanks!

My addition to their comments....

I think it's a mistake to think that you're OK, just because you're better than the guy next to you. As a person, and as a culture, I think it's best not to compare yourself to others to see if you're OK, and just roll-over and go back to sleep. Try to stay introspective and understand what things can get better, and improve.

I probably was a bit too caustic with my "Americans are lazy" words. Hell, I hear it all the time from my co-workers here. Every time they say to me, "So, I hear that Americans only work 40 hours a week. They think 50 hours a week is a hard work week. Is that right?" My first reaction is to become defensive. But... yeah... in the end they're right.

Anyhow, I don't want to get stuck on that point, because in the end "laziness" is a subjective idea, and impossible to really debate. My point, as mentioned by others, was just to point out (my own opinions) about observations of America from the outside. I hope it was informative, or at least entertaining to everyone. I'm not saying I'm right... I'm just saying, "this is how I see it".

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Riddil

WOW, man, I'm really sad that I got too busy at work these days to read & respond. I missed a lot.

Hehe... it seems I REALLY struck a nerve with Cicero. I really enjoyed the whole "student stringing words together while teachers applaud" thing, that's really great.

Anyhow, I know I'm not an expert in that field. I'm just some guy on the internet posting my opinion. I didn't start my post saying, "I'm a Harvard trained socio-politico-environment-business wig-wam doo-dah theorist". I'm just a dude working on assignment in China.

But, you may want to read "The World is Flat". It's an interesting book that talks about what America needs to do to try to stay competitive in the changing world.

Anyhow, I'm grateful I had so much help from folks in this thread to backup my intent. Aliantha and others really said it all for me. Thanks!

My addition to their comments....

I think it's a mistake to think that you're OK, just because you're better than the guy next to you. As a person, and as a culture, I think it's best not to compare yourself to others to see if you're OK, and just roll-over and go back to sleep. Try to stay introspective and understand what things can get better, and improve.

I probably was a bit too caustic with my "Americans are lazy" words. Hell, I hear it all the time from my co-workers here. Every time they say to me, "So, I hear that Americans only work 40 hours a week. They think 50 hours a week is a hard work week. Is that right?" My first reaction is to become defensive. But... yeah... in the end they're right.

Anyhow, I don't want to get stuck on that point, because in the end "laziness" is a subjective idea, and impossible to really debate. My point, as mentioned by others, was just to point out (my own opinions) about observations of America from the outside. I hope it was informative, or at least entertaining to everyone. I'm not saying I'm right... I'm just saying, "this is how I see it".

heh... the guys I work with are working 70 to 110 hours a week. Most are busting their asses to stay ahead in 3 or more jobs. To say that the rest of us are sitting on our hands while the Chinese are so hard working is total and utter Bull shite.

[Riddil]

Yeah, I totally hear what you're saying. My coworkers in the US typically log anywhere from 70-80 hours a week. My brother is currently juggling two jobs so he can stay ahead, and provide a better life for his kids. My statement wasn't a comment about EVERY American. It was just a broad generalization.

Actually, even though I tried to avoid it, I can make a comparison to China on this point....

The reality is that American vs. Chinese students are very different. Chinese (and most Asian) students have ridiculous requirements put on them. But overall the American public school system is a joke. But I'd argue that once they hit the working market, it flips. Americans suddenly realize the competitive nature of the world, and professionals really pick up steam. But for many Chinese once they get the job, "they've made it", and they can sit back and relax. The guys I work with (engineers) are the exception to the rule, not the standard. (I'm talking about self-imposed hard-work ethic. Many factory workers put in 70+ hours a week, but that's mandated work schedules, so I don't include them here).

My concern isn't so much about America's total work attitude. When it comes down to it, America does have a motivated spirit to "get the job done". But my concern is that the only way to build good engineers is to build a great education through High School and College. You can be the most motivated person in the world, but if you don't have a good foundation no company will pick you up. Hell, I went to a top credited engineering school, but I feel I got my education in spite of of my school.

And I do focus on engineers, only because in my (biased) opinion, real "national competitiveness" is built upon innovation. China got a free "gimme" by getting ahead by fixing the exchange rate of the RMB to a totally unfair number, giving manufacturers here a leg up. But they can't maintain that forever. If they want to KEEP growing so fast they need to build solid businesses, and solid innovation. My concern is that it seems they ARE doing that. (Kudos to them) But the problem is that Americans are content to skate through school, and that sets up a brain-drain loss of engineers, which in turns sets up a loss of innovation, and next thing you know, we'll all be driving ONLY japanese cars, using japanese cameras, wearing clothes designed in Europe, browsing web sites built and hosted in India, and every product is made in China.

America will be a nation of super hard working waiters and sales-people.

[Cicero]

That was a great response to my questions and concerns Riddil....
Welcome to the cellar Riddil! All you need is a masters in spin and evasion....