Kenya in Crisis

[classicman]

Originally Posted by tw

What he means is no oil available - therefore let them burn. We hate them because they have nothing for us.

I didn't take that out of his post at all. Course what the hell is my vote worth?










Oh yeah, same as everyone elses.

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by tw

We hate them because they have nothing for us.

Speak for yourself, tw.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

My sampling of Kenya's vibe in mid 1985 told me President Daniel Arap Moi was running an undemocracy -- a mildly critical remark about him from me netted me a very white-eyed nervous look from a concierge. That sort of thing cropping up in casual public conversation is not a good sign. English-language papers ran great numbers of articles of an officialese flavor, all Arap Moi, all the time, most of the front page, as if this paper were some party organ. Another bad sign.

Cutting genocidal groups off at the ankle strikes me as more of a deterrent than Pierce is willing to credit it being: "they started doing that and the whole bunch of them got thrown in jail/shot/fixed." This tends to take the fuze out of the powderkeg, whether or not it removes the keg. At worst, it buys time to address the more tractable of the root conditions necessary for genocides, particularly an imbalance of firepower -- the easiest side of the genocide triangle to eliminate. There is nothing in particular about genocide that makes delaying it conducive to anything demonstrably more severe that I've ever heard of.

Tw is far too willing to say "We hate..." -- it's more illustrative of tw's own cast of thought than of anyone else's, singular or collective. Maladroit. Bosnia really wasn't a perfect example of anything well done, what with its ethnic cleansing and suchlike diversions. We should not be expected by anyone (sane) to give it a top grade because a Democratic President had to deal with it. That would be blatant prejudice.

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

...a mildly critical remark about him from me netted me a very white-eyed nervous look from a concierge.

Freudian slip?


(hee hee!)

[piercehawkeye45]

But who is going to throw them in jail? The United States? The United Nations? I don't know if that is even possible and then you have to deal with the aftereffects of us coming in there.

And that wouldn't take out the fuze, it would just stop it from burning.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Brianna

Speak for yourself, tw.

I requoted our extremists who see no profit in going there. Why is Brianna defending those whose underlying political agenda is based in hate and violence?

Meanwhile, moderates will recognize Kenya as a country undergoing some turmoil. This is far from Rwanda and Brunei deja vue. At least not yet. Counter productive would be other nations interfering at this point. If Kenyans solve this problem, then 50 burned victims in a church could become memorialized as what happens when extremists are permitted to exercise their usual solutions to everything - violence.

Kenyans and only Kenyans currently are our best hope for a lasting solution here. Kenyans must be permitted time to solve their own problems. If major actions are required as became necessary in the Balkans, then such actions will require the UN - in direct contradiction to those who just reposted Rush Limbaugh extremist rhetoric.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Let the Africans figure it out on their own. We have no business there.

Originally Posted by tw

Kenyans and only Kenyans currently are our best hope for a lasting solution here. Kenyans must be permitted time to solve their own problems.

Hmmm looks like you are both saying the same thing to me.

[deadbeater]

Sorry, the US is too busy in Afghanistan and Iraq to care about a few Africans.

I think that Kanye West is more and more right: 'Bush doesn't care about Black people'.

[piercehawkeye45]

Bush doesn't care about Brown people either, just that they are more important politically.

[tw]

Originally Posted by classicman

Hmmm looks like you are both saying the same thing to me.

I keep posting this. Please learn to read with care what was posted rather than what you want to read.

TheMercenary is saying we have no purpose in Kenya like we have no purpose in Bosnia. He says the UN is our useless enemy when, if the world eventually has to solve Kenya, then we will need the UN.

Where, classicman, do we say same thing? Posts from tw and TheMercenary are completely different - if classicman grasps the significant details. You didn't previously which was why you felt insulted when no insult was posted. You really need to reread multiple times before posting. Classicman has again completely misrepresented what was posted.

Did you notice we say contrary things about the UN? Did you notice we post contrary conclusions about Bosnia - where the lessons of how to conduct nation building are demonstrated? He says America got beat up in Bosnia. Wacko extremists (ie Rush Limbaugh) promote that lie. In reality, Bosnia was a perfect example of how to do nation building. Did you notice our posts use both examples to reach contrary conclusions about Kenya? Do you read before posting? Why must I again resummarized (or requote) details that you completely ignore? Why do you set yourself up again to be criticized for replying to posts that do not exist? Will you now take insult where none exists?

[classicman]

Since YOU brought it up - Yes tw, I will take your diparaging tone as an affront. I have read hundreds of your posts from years back to the present. You write with a pompous tone. Whether that is intended or not - that is your deficiency. I am not the only one to see it, I am just more vocal about it. We all have things to work on to improve ourselves in life. Perhaps this could be yours.

As to the real discussion. Yes I have read both your posts in this thread very carefully. I am well aware of your different opinions. That is why I found it interesting that BOTH OF YOU came to the same conclusion through very different thought processes.
Amazing actually that the two of you both think we should stay out of there and let them figure it out for themselves.
There is a lot of irony in your last post - guess you didn't read mine well enough.

Originally Posted by deadbeater

'Bush doesn't care about Black people'.

Eh? I thought he was sleeping with Condo-lazy Rice.

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Bush doesn't care about Brown people either.

So what about "Yellow people"?

Originally Posted by classicman

..... you ..... think we should stay out of there and let them figure it out for themselves.

I wouldn't have the slightest doubt (if such reports were to come to light) that the American CIA are responisible for the whole problem from the very beginning. Implementing political unrest (in another country) would be keeping in true form with standard CIA procedure if such unrest might lead to increased American influence and (ultimately) American control.

The British Empire relied on "Divide and Rule" tactics. The Americans rely on "Destroy and Reconstruct".

[ZenGum]

Originally Posted by Aretha's doctor

So what about "Yellow people"?

He owes them money.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by tw

What he means is no oil available - therefore let them burn. We hate them because they have nothing for us.

Bosnia is the perfect example of how diplomacy works and how problems should be solved. The wacko extremists among us will deny this only because they hate Clinton and Clinton showed how problems can be solved. Clinton did it right; therefore it must be wrong – the Rush Limbaugh diatribe. Use political rhetoric rather than reality to determine what to do (and then blame the UN).

Shame is that Kenya only ten years ago was a model of African stability. A nation of warm relations to and a strong attachment to America. What has changed? According to TheMercenary, we don't care. They don't have anything we need. Therefore they are scumbags who should be left to rot on their own. Amzing the contempt TheMercenary has for one of America’s closest friends.

TheMercenary has advocated hate - the real agenda of politics that even blame the UN for all world problems.

The Unibomber tw resurfaces...