What do u wonder about CHINA ? - Page 5

Undertoad · 05-16-2003, 08:40 AM

The only reason Communism doesn't kill as many people now is that innovations from the west have made a better life possible.

xoxoxoBruce · 05-16-2003, 04:25 PM

It appears the killing that resulted from internal power struggles has abated and China has embarked on a new path. A quest for wealth and increased standard of living. Inevitably there will develop a class of yuppies that are envied and disliked. It will be interesting to see if the newly affluent, quest for influence also.

ScottSolomon · 05-16-2003, 04:53 PM

UnderToad,

All nationa have a great deal of blood on their hands. We kill a lot of Vietnamese, our proxy armies killed a lot of people in Central and South AMerica, we killed quite a few people in Japan, we killed millions in the middle passage, we killed a hundred thousand fighting ourselves, we killed most of the Native AMericans, and we keep killing.

You cannot judge the worth of a nation by the amount of blood that was spilled in it's creation. If you did, none of the nations on Earth would be worth a damn - except maybe Greenland.

Billy · 05-16-2003, 08:16 PM

We don't kill people as you say. In war time no one government can asure that they kill no one for gaining the war. The new country was born in struggle ans death.

elSicomoro · 05-16-2003, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ScottSolomon
If you did, none of the nations on Earth would be worth a damn - except maybe Greenland.

Greenland isn't a nation--it's a self-governing territory of Denmark.

Undertoad · 05-16-2003, 10:44 PM

What a marvelous excuse.

ScottSolomon · 05-17-2003, 03:14 AM

Touche

What is the deal UT? Are you really under the impression that this nation was accepted bye the Native population our of the virtue of it's ideology? Were their deaths any more valuable than the Chinese that died in the Boxer Rebellion or the Opium War?

In the struggle to cast of the yoke of imperialism, be it Chinese, English, or Japanese, people will generally accept the actions of the powerful leader - even if the leader is vicious or dishonest. As long as the end justified the means ( Bush supporters should be familiar with this by now ).

Before the foundation of the DHinese communist party, china was the site of numerous wars and periodic rebellions. The Japanese actions in their occupation of Manchuria led to the eventual resistance to the Japanese. This notably culminated in the Nanjing Massacre where 300,000 Chinese were killed, and 20,000 women raped. The massacre helped to solidify the peasant population - that only wanted security and protection - into cooperating fully with the Communist party.

Eventually after WW2 the cokllaboration broke down and a bloody civil war gripped the nation. The CCP eventually won the civil war and went on a massive repressive bend to try to solidify it's base of power - and remove terrorists.

This was the birth of the People's Republic of China. It was a nation fought for - and killed for - by peasants that believed a strong man that knew how to beat the Japanese.

The place may have many faults, but their history is no less painful of fraught with peril than our nations history. If we simply see the world through ideological goggles, we will never be able to see the true structure of history.

Undertoad · 05-17-2003, 09:02 AM

You must get dizzy spinning that hard.

ScottSolomon · 05-17-2003, 06:30 PM

Your head must hurt from being stuck in the sand so long.

ScottSolomon · 05-17-2003, 06:33 PM

UT,

Why don't you educate me then? Why do you think that America was not born from pain and blood - and why do you think that the Chinese must be monsters because their nation was born from pain and blood?

Undertoad · 05-17-2003, 07:08 PM

Never teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and only annoys the pig.

alamuhan · 05-17-2003, 09:50 PM

Will u two go boxing instead of discussion ?

As SS say and we know , CCP liberated we Chinese, led we to wealth and happy. We consider the early-times CCP as our savior. CCP has changed a lot during recent years, it no longer insist on "Planning Economic" , it educate us less and less "Socialism are superior to Capitalism" and so on.Though there are a lot curruption inside the CCP ---- it's inevitable for most Parties in the world --- , we confess it intead of cover everything like USSR did, that's what we can do and we have done it . No matter how we become what we are , we just want go on and on .

Billy · 05-17-2003, 10:36 PM

We have time to have coffe,just discuss. I like..

jaguar · 05-25-2003, 04:57 AM

Credit where credit is due UT, i know Mark Twain when i see it.

slapictron seminount · 10-09-2005, 05:54 AM

If I lived in the Guangdong province, what would be the best way to get around if I don't have a car?

05-16-2003, 04:25 PM	#62
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	It appears the killing that resulted from internal power struggles has abated and China has embarked on a new path. A quest for wealth and increased standard of living. Inevitably there will develop a class of yuppies that are envied and disliked. It will be interesting to see if the newly affluent, quest for influence also. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

05-16-2003, 04:53 PM	#63
ScottSolomon Coronation Incarnate Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: On the skin of a tiny planet in an obscure galaxy in a lackluster corner of the universe. Posts: 94	UnderToad, All nationa have a great deal of blood on their hands. We kill a lot of Vietnamese, our proxy armies killed a lot of people in Central and South AMerica, we killed quite a few people in Japan, we killed millions in the middle passage, we killed a hundred thousand fighting ourselves, we killed most of the Native AMericans, and we keep killing. You cannot judge the worth of a nation by the amount of blood that was spilled in it's creation. If you did, none of the nations on Earth would be worth a damn - except maybe Greenland. __________________ The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past. George Orwell

05-16-2003, 08:16 PM	#64
Billy Professor Join Date: May 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 1,462	ScottSolomon, what you say is right We don't kill people as you say. In war time no one government can asure that they kill no one for gaining the war. The new country was born in struggle ans death.

05-17-2003, 03:14 AM	#67
ScottSolomon Coronation Incarnate Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: On the skin of a tiny planet in an obscure galaxy in a lackluster corner of the universe. Posts: 94	Touche What is the deal UT? Are you really under the impression that this nation was accepted bye the Native population our of the virtue of it's ideology? Were their deaths any more valuable than the Chinese that died in the Boxer Rebellion or the Opium War? In the struggle to cast of the yoke of imperialism, be it Chinese, English, or Japanese, people will generally accept the actions of the powerful leader - even if the leader is vicious or dishonest. As long as the end justified the means ( Bush supporters should be familiar with this by now ). Before the foundation of the DHinese communist party, china was the site of numerous wars and periodic rebellions. The Japanese actions in their occupation of Manchuria led to the eventual resistance to the Japanese. This notably culminated in the Nanjing Massacre where 300,000 Chinese were killed, and 20,000 women raped. The massacre helped to solidify the peasant population - that only wanted security and protection - into cooperating fully with the Communist party. Eventually after WW2 the cokllaboration broke down and a bloody civil war gripped the nation. The CCP eventually won the civil war and went on a massive repressive bend to try to solidify it's base of power - and remove terrorists. This was the birth of the People's Republic of China. It was a nation fought for - and killed for - by peasants that believed a strong man that knew how to beat the Japanese. The place may have many faults, but their history is no less painful of fraught with peril than our nations history. If we simply see the world through ideological goggles, we will never be able to see the true structure of history. __________________ The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past. George Orwell

05-17-2003, 06:30 PM	#69
ScottSolomon Coronation Incarnate Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: On the skin of a tiny planet in an obscure galaxy in a lackluster corner of the universe. Posts: 94	Your head must hurt from being stuck in the sand so long. __________________ The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past. George Orwell

05-16-2003, 08:40 AM	#61
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	The only reason Communism doesn't kill as many people now is that innovations from the west have made a better life possible.

05-16-2003, 10:44 PM	#66
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	What a marvelous excuse.

05-17-2003, 09:02 AM	#68
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	You must get dizzy spinning that hard.

05-17-2003, 06:33 PM	#70
ScottSolomon Coronation Incarnate Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: On the skin of a tiny planet in an obscure galaxy in a lackluster corner of the universe. Posts: 94	UT, Why don't you educate me then? Why do you think that America was not born from pain and blood - and why do you think that the Chinese must be monsters because their nation was born from pain and blood? __________________ The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past. George Orwell

05-17-2003, 07:08 PM	#71
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Never teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and only annoys the pig.

05-17-2003, 09:50 PM	#72
alamuhan Romantic Necromancer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: CN Posts: 29	Will u two go boxing instead of discussion ? As SS say and we know , CCP liberated we Chinese, led we to wealth and happy. We consider the early-times CCP as our savior. CCP has changed a lot during recent years, it no longer insist on "Planning Economic" , it educate us less and less "Socialism are superior to Capitalism" and so on.Though there are a lot curruption inside the CCP ---- it's inevitable for most Parties in the world --- , we confess it intead of cover everything like USSR did, that's what we can do and we have done it . No matter how we become what we are , we just want go on and on .

05-17-2003, 10:36 PM	#73
Billy Professor Join Date: May 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 1,462	It is a good time now We have time to have coffe,just discuss. I like..

05-25-2003, 04:57 AM	#74
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	Credit where credit is due UT, i know Mark Twain when i see it. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

10-09-2005, 05:54 AM	#75
slapictron seminount Forked Correction Vection Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: in memory of better times Posts: 11	curiosity. If I lived in the Guangdong province, what would be the best way to get around if I don't have a car?

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