Recreational Drug Use Legalization - Page 6

Shawnee123 · 03-06-2008, 11:37 AM

re: merc:

Yeah, cause the war on drugs actually is working?

You may have no sympathy for anyone, but that doesn't mean that the fact that this "war" isn't working isn't true.

Man, you live in a black and white world and know how all things should be, don't you? Maybe HLJ would let you borrow his user name.

TheMercenary · 03-06-2008, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

re: merc:

Yeah, cause the war on drugs actually is working?

You may have no sympathy for anyone, but that doesn't mean that the fact that this "war" isn't working isn't true.

Man, you live in a black and white world and know how all things should be, don't you? Maybe HLJ would let you borrow his user name.

You take it wrong. I never said the war on drugs was working. I know there are much better ways to do it. I have already stated my position on the decriminalization of pot, no big deal to me. The rest of it I would never support. I don't support putting drug addicted people into jail and not giving them treatment. I do not support the whole scale legaliztion of drugs, that would be a huge mistake.

TheMercenary · 03-06-2008, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

re: merc:

Man, you live in a black and white world and know how all things should be, don't you?

No, I just have an opinion about this issue. Others have other opinions.

Shawnee123 · 03-06-2008, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

No, I just have an opinion about this issue. Others have other opinions.

Sorry, it is not my place to say your opinion is wrong (bad day, bad news hitting me every direction I turn.)

I do know that we are opposites when it comes to many issues; my perception is that you do believe you know exactly how people should be and what should govern their "choices" and not just this issue.

But lord knows my perception has been wrong a million times before.

glatt · 03-06-2008, 12:45 PM

Quote:

In Baltimore, where we set The Wire, drug arrests have skyrocketed over the past three decades, yet in that same span, arrest rates for murder have gone from 80% and 90% to half that. Lost in an unwinnable drug war, a new generation of law officers is no longer capable of investigating crime properly, having learned only to make court pay by grabbing cheap, meaningless drug arrests off the nearest corner.

I've been watching The Wire lately on DVD and they really keep pounding this point home. I think it's a valid one.

It used to be that cops would walk a beat and get to know the people of a neighborhood. They would know every kid by name and stop to talk to the citizens as they went around. If anything ever happened, the cop would hear about it from the law abiding citizens. They were approachable.

Now, with the war on drugs, virtually everyone in places like West Baltimore knows someone who has been locked up in the war on drugs. Maybe they have been locked up. Maybe it's their father or brother. Maybe a friend. The cops took that freedom away, and they are the enemy. Nothing good comes from talking to a cop. So the cops don't get any breaks. Homicide witnesses won't come forward. The cops are the enemy.

Get rid of the war on drugs, and the cops can go back to protecting a neighborhood from real crime with the help of the citizens.

xoxoxoBruce · 03-06-2008, 01:21 PM

Such as....

Cicero · 03-06-2008, 02:53 PM

Yea...well...I was pulled over once in the past 2 years because I was driving in a "bad neighborhood". I was pulled into the back of a cop-car to answer questions about people I know that do drugs (suggestively selling the question) and where they live.....heh. Yea...No probable cause and interrogation...I'm not sure if there is a question about enemies. That isn't how you make friends. I insisted that I myself don't do drugs a couple of times but they tore apart the car anyway...and of course...nothing.

I was going to the Texas Steak House to pick up my to-go order......It was cold by the time I got it.

And I know your wondering and the answer is: hell no.

Undertoad · 03-06-2008, 03:35 PM

Did you get the steaks well done?

oh you've already answered never mind

TheMercenary · 03-06-2008, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

I've been watching The Wire lately on DVD and they really keep pounding this point home. I think it's a valid one.

It used to be that cops would walk a beat and get to know the people of a neighborhood. They would know every kid by name and stop to talk to the citizens as they went around. If anything ever happened, the cop would hear about it from the law abiding citizens. They were approachable.

Now, with the war on drugs, virtually everyone in places like West Baltimore knows someone who has been locked up in the war on drugs. Maybe they have been locked up. Maybe it's their father or brother. Maybe a friend. The cops took that freedom away, and they are the enemy. Nothing good comes from talking to a cop. So the cops don't get any breaks. Homicide witnesses won't come forward. The cops are the enemy.

Get rid of the war on drugs, and the cops can go back to protecting a neighborhood from real crime with the help of the citizens.

You really don't think it is that simplistic do you. BTW I love The Wire.

I do think that cops walking a beat is a good thing, we just restarted that in a major city near us. But the practicality of it no longer fits todays demographic, not to mention the fact that you can't hire a person for $17,000 a year and expect him to love life walking in a neighborhood war zone the size of many small US towns. To much area, to many ingrained thoughts and ideas, to many generations removed from any fantasy that all cops are good guys, cause they are not. They are not paid to be either. Crime in general is to much and there are not enough good people available to do the job effectively, and one reason is there are to many people to police.

Cops are not the enemy because of the War on Drugs, that is but one small element. Much of the violent crime is related to the struggle between factions that want to control drugs. Legalization will not change that. People will just look to circumvent the system, legal or not, to keep their income and piece of the power pie.

glatt · 03-07-2008, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Cops are not the enemy because of the War on Drugs, that is but one small element. Much of the violent crime is related to the struggle between factions that want to control drugs. Legalization will not change that. People will just look to circumvent the system, legal or not, to keep their income and piece of the power pie.

Legalization will absolutely change that.

Who is going to buy drugs of unknown quality from a shifty character on a street corner when you can get a known, quality controlled product made by Pfizer or Merck from the corner drugstore for half the price? The criminal dealers will be left out in the cold. Nobody will buy from them. The violence associated with the supply side will disappear overnight.

classicman · 03-07-2008, 08:11 AM

Also, those areas are far more densely populated than they were before and the people are far more transient than they were 20 - 30 .... years ago. There just isn't that constant where people grew up and stayed in one place anymore.

Shawnee123 · 03-07-2008, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

Legalization will absolutely change that.

Who is going to buy drugs of unknown quality from a shifty character on a street corner when you can get a known, quality controlled product made by Pfizer or Merck from the corner drugstore for half the price? The criminal dealers will be left out in the cold. Nobody will buy from them. The violence associated with the supply side will disappear overnight.

Like alcohol. MOST people go to the nearest grocery, bar, or liquor store. They don't meet up with Guido on the street corner to get their Absolut cheaper.

lookout123 · 03-07-2008, 10:52 AM

You all think weed is harmless?

Shawnee123 · 03-07-2008, 11:30 AM

Shoulda made that puppy watch Reefer Madness.

TheMercenary · 03-10-2008, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

Legalization will absolutely change that.

Who is going to buy drugs of unknown quality from a shifty character on a street corner when you can get a known, quality controlled product made by Pfizer or Merck from the corner drugstore for half the price? The criminal dealers will be left out in the cold. Nobody will buy from them. The violence associated with the supply side will disappear overnight.

I don't buy it. The same thugs who can't afford anything other than their FUBU hoodie and $120 nikes will still be ripping off the guy who has the cash to buy the drugs legally. This continues to be an issue that is not simplified by discussing legalization. Even when opium dens were legal and readily available the drug use ruined many lives.

03-06-2008, 11:37 AM	#76
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	re: merc: Yeah, cause the war on drugs actually is working? You may have no sympathy for anyone, but that doesn't mean that the fact that this "war" isn't working isn't true. Man, you live in a black and white world and know how all things should be, don't you? Maybe HLJ would let you borrow his user name. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

03-06-2008, 01:21 PM	#81
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Such as.... Attached Images __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

03-06-2008, 02:53 PM	#82
Cicero Looking forward to open mic night. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,148	Yea...well...I was pulled over once in the past 2 years because I was driving in a "bad neighborhood". I was pulled into the back of a cop-car to answer questions about people I know that do drugs (suggestively selling the question) and where they live.....heh. Yea...No probable cause and interrogation...I'm not sure if there is a question about enemies. That isn't how you make friends. I insisted that I myself don't do drugs a couple of times but they tore apart the car anyway...and of course...nothing. I was going to the Texas Steak House to pick up my to-go order......It was cold by the time I got it. And I know your wondering and the answer is: hell no. __________________ Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you.- Carl Jung Last edited by Cicero; 03-06-2008 at 03:02 PM. Reason: oh but wait.

03-07-2008, 08:11 AM	#86
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	Also, those areas are far more densely populated than they were before and the people are far more transient than they were 20 - 30 .... years ago. There just isn't that constant where people grew up and stayed in one place anymore. __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

03-07-2008, 10:52 AM	#88
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	You all think weed is harmless? Attached Images __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

03-06-2008, 03:35 PM	#83
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Did you get the steaks well done? oh you've already answered never mind

03-07-2008, 11:30 AM	#89
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	Shoulda made that puppy watch Reefer Madness. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

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