04/28/03: The Cult-like Mindset - Page 3

juju · 05-02-2003, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whit
So, where do things stand on this thread?
1. You have the answers
2. Opposition aka "The Other"
3. Family or group togetherness, making followers feel a part of something.
4. The freedom to not think or make your own decisions.
5. Norah Jones is no Ella Fitzgerald.
I guess that sums it up then.

I thought about the "every cult has it's devil" thing, and I don't think it's necessarily true. When I was into witchcraft, we did "battle demons", but that was more for fun. The real driving force of the whole thing was discovering the unknown. I think the cultishness of it could have existed without having any enemy at all.

The reason this comes up in some cults, I think, is that fear is often used to manipulate people., It's a powerful tool, even when used unwittingly. In order for cults to convert people to their views and keep them there, they can use a whole range of techniques, and fear is just one of them. So of course, since fear is such an effective tool, it is often used. But I really don't think it's necessary for something to qualify as a cult. It's also true that cults are in no way alone in using this tool. I think it's used a whole lot throughout our society. Especially America.

I think Wolf and Smoothmoniker nailed it on #4. I totally agree. Although really, #4 seems to me to just be #1 re-worded.

I agree with Bruce that being part of a group is something that's seen throughout all of society. Perhaps the reason you often see groups of nuts together is that a group reinforces its members' beliefs. It's as if each person is a mirror that reflects and magnifies the validity of everyones' views and self-confidence. The giant network makes each individual node stronger. This is otherwise known as Group-think. And when a bunch of nuts get together and agree on something.. whoo-boy. You're not changing their mind this century, let me tell you.

Is a group a prerequisite to cult-like thinking, though? I'm not sure. You'd think that such a person would eventually realize the error of their ways after being constantly told they're a nut by everyone they meet, and never having anyone reinforce their beliefs. Who knows, though?

As to #5, I have no idea who either of those people are. But I do like Frank Sinatra and Harry Connick Jr. Does that make me uncool? :)

perth · 05-02-2003, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by juju
As to #5, I have no idea who either of those people are. But I do like Frank Sinatra and Harry Connick Jr. Does that make me uncool? :)

hell, no! get some ella fitzgerald though. :)

~james

xoxoxoBruce · 05-02-2003, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Who would get riled over that?

I haven't met many people that are ambivalent about Joplin. Some love her and some hate her but all seem to be firm, if not rabid, in their convictions. I love her but gave up trying to convert the nay sayers long ago.

smoothmoniker · 05-03-2003, 02:53 AM

Quote:

As to #5, I have no idea who either of those people are. But I do like Frank Sinatra and Harry Connick Jr. Does that make me uncool?

Yes. But there is a simple remedy:

step 1 - listen to "Thelonious Monk, The Composer" while ...
step 2 - read "Beneath the Underdog" by Charles Mingus and ...
step 3 - sipping a Johnny Walker Black on ice.

Repeat as needed. BTW Whit, this is not just Old People music.

-sm

juju · 05-03-2003, 10:16 AM

Nope, never heard of any of those people, either. This could continue forever, though, as I've also never heard of most of the artists mentioned in the "What's playing on the stereo" thread.

elSicomoro · 05-03-2003, 10:24 AM

It's understandable, juju. You're from an area where country and southern rock are king. Not to mention, jazz/big band/swing is nothing like it was pre-1960.

But I'm grateful that I had my grandmother and aunt, along with my own sense of musical adventure, to school me on the old school...and to open my ears to musical diversity.

Now, the internet makes the sky the limit.

Whit · 05-03-2003, 12:01 PM

Quote:

BTW Whit, this is not just Old People music.

     Ah yes, that must be why I insulated myself by using the term "many people". ; D
     I was just being a smart-ass anyway, I listen to classical a lot. Talk about old people music...
     By the by, I don't have any now, but I grew up on early blues and jazz. Well, and a little Dr. Demento...

juju · 05-03-2003, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sycamore
It's understandable, juju. You're from an area where country and southern rock are king. Not to mention, jazz/big band/swing is nothing like it was pre-1960.

So, where might I have had the opportunity to hear those people? I don't mean live. I mean, where would I have come across their music?

elSicomoro · 05-03-2003, 05:52 PM

1--Living in a large city with a large number of radio stations.

2--Passed on from relatives/others that listen to the music.

juju · 05-03-2003, 06:00 PM

Ah. Now, see, I lack both of those. Except for my brother, who's deep into the "jam band" music.

Whit · 05-18-2003, 10:55 PM

Back to the cult theme of the thread, did anyone else see the King of the Hill season finale? Bobby joined the "Coven of Artimes" it was pretty funny.

darclauz · 06-03-2003, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whit
So, where do things stand on this thread?
1. You have the answers
2. Opposition aka "The Other"
3. Family or group togetherness, making followers feel a part of something.

Is this accurate then? Does everyone agree on these? Can anyone think of any more?

material goods. they are always important...either in the complete abdication or collection of such.

juju · 06-03-2003, 10:04 PM

What, you mean like preparing for armageddon? Collecting canned foods and bottled water and such? Or guns?

darclauz · 06-03-2003, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by juju
What, you mean like preparing for armageddon? Collecting canned foods and bottled water and such? Or guns?

no...like controlling how you handle the trappings of material stuff is a part of that. in mainstream christianity, it is preached that you be "in the world, but not of the world." to some, that means be different enough so people can see it. to the amish, it means no electricity. to jim jones, it meant...give it all to me, and live in my commune.

ray stevens says:

rita got a letter from her second husband
told her that he might be passing thru town next wednesday
wouldn't she like to get together, catch a movie, fool around?
he didn't write that, but she read it

rita couldn't help but think there might be trouble
something in the way he signed his name...peculiar
calls himself nirvana now, instead of beauregard,
that makes it awful hard...

because you see
he gave away her alimony
he never even bothered to thank her
for not calling the law....that wasn't all
he gave the car
the dogs and her brother's guitar
the one that he sent back from rio
back in '73!
--

they say....................................
relinquish your material items
(your window on the world)
come out, be separate
and i will go tooling around in the car that your stuff bought me.

dar

novice day off · 06-04-2003, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whit
So, where do things stand on this thread?
1. You have the answers
2. Opposition aka "The Other"
3. Family or group togetherness, making followers feel a part of something.
4. The freedom to not think or make your own decisions.
5. Norah Jones is no Ella Fitzgerald.
I guess that sums it up then.

Heck, add em all up and wah-lah....welcome to the defence force.
I've always viewed it as cult-like in many ways, particularly when i'm ordered to take part in some of the more arcane traditions which can vary from ridiculous time wasting enterprises through to downright scary for the uninitiated.

Having said that, and being an average joe, it is nice to not have to think unless I choose to and share a huge plateau of mediocrity with a bunch of egalitarian people I know I can count on.
An interesting side note: Many join having never worked in the 'real' world. Many of these people become disillusioned and flee in droves after 6-10 years. Of these, many are so appalled with the security (and, by comparison, ethical) vacuum in the 'real' world they return within a short time seeking re-employment. Please don't ask me to back this up with numbers as I don't know anything other than they are significant.

I find it hard to distinguish "cult-like" mentality from the good-ole strong 'tribe' mentality. ie. one in all in, all under one leader, a common goal etc.

Which is crazier, I wonder? Me spending most of my adult life learning more efficient ways of anhiallating my fellow man or dancing naked in a field under a new moon.

05-18-2003, 10:55 PM	#41
Whit Umm ... yeah. Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 949	Back to the cult theme of the thread, did anyone else see the King of the Hill season finale? Bobby joined the "Coven of Artimes" it was pretty funny. __________________ A friend will help you move. A true friend will help you move a body.

05-03-2003, 10:16 AM	#35
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Nope, never heard of any of those people, either. This could continue forever, though, as I've also never heard of most of the artists mentioned in the "What's playing on the stereo" thread.

05-03-2003, 10:24 AM	#36
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	It's understandable, juju. You're from an area where country and southern rock are king. Not to mention, jazz/big band/swing is nothing like it was pre-1960. But I'm grateful that I had my grandmother and aunt, along with my own sense of musical adventure, to school me on the old school...and to open my ears to musical diversity. Now, the internet makes the sky the limit.

05-03-2003, 05:52 PM	#39
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	1--Living in a large city with a large number of radio stations. 2--Passed on from relatives/others that listen to the music.

05-03-2003, 06:00 PM	#40
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Ah. Now, see, I lack both of those. Except for my brother, who's deep into the "jam band" music.

06-03-2003, 10:04 PM	#43
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	What, you mean like preparing for armageddon? Collecting canned foods and bottled water and such? Or guns?

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