SCOTUS Grants Guantanamo Prisoners Habeas Corpus

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Nice try.

Only pertains to legal citizens.

If you think otherwise prove me wrong.

Show me where it states all people of the world outside of the United States. Or anywhere that the govenment operates outside of the US.

Because it list things that the government must, or must not, do, and doesn't say "except outside our borders".

Originally Posted by flaja

If the Constitution applies only to the United States, how can Congress punish piracies committed on the high seas? And how can Congress define and punish offenses committed against the law of nations, i.e., how can Congress can make laws governing the international community?

The Constitution applies to the US government, wherever it operates, including the high seas. Treaties governing maritime law are recognized by the Costitution. Our power gives us leverage when making treaties, which has been used positively and negatively.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Because it list things that the government must, or must not, do, and doesn't say "except outside our borders".

And no where in the document does it say it includes all peoples outside of our borders any more than any other countries constitutional documents apply to US citizens while in their countries. It does not follow logic. All constitutions of all countries do not apply to everyone. All constitutions of all countries are applicable to the people who are citizens of each country. Why are you trying to make the US Constitution a world document? Maybe you think the UN should adapt our Constitution and make it the worlds.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Why are you trying to make the US Constitution a world document? Maybe you think the UN should adapt our Constitution and make it the worlds.

It's not a world document. It's a US. Government document, and it applies to the US Government wherever in the world it operates.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

It's not a world document. It's a US. Government document, and it applies to the US Government wherever in the world it operates.

Wherever in the world it operates with US Citizens and it applies to those legal citizens only. So a US citizen captured in the Sudan while in the service of USAID for smuggling hash is subjected to our Constitution?

[flaja]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Wherever in the world it operates with US Citizens and it applies to those legal citizens only. So a US citizen captured in the Sudan while in the service of USAID for smuggling hash is subjected to our Constitution?

Where in the Constitution does it expressly say that legal due process rights are given only to U.S. citizens and not to anyone else who is subject to U.S. law?

What proof do you have that only citizens are included in We the People and that the expression “no person” in the 5th Amendment means “no citizen”? None. You have no such proof because no such proof exists. You have been shown time and time again that legal due process rights are and have been extended to non-citizens that are subject to U.S. law. You are either too dense to see or too obstinate to admit that you are flat wrong. You are not here to discuss, but rather to argue. You are little more than a bully.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by flaja

Where in the Constitution does it expressly say that legal due process rights are given only to U.S. citizens and not to anyone else who is subject to U.S. law?

What proof do you have that only citizens are included in We the People and that the expression “no person” in the 5th Amendment means “no citizen”? None. You have no such proof because no such proof exists. You have been shown time and time again that legal due process rights are and have been extended to non-citizens that are subject to U.S. law. You are either too dense to see or too obstinate to admit that you are flat wrong. You are not here to discuss, but rather to argue. You are little more than a bully.

BS. You have no proof either.

What proof do you have that only non-citizens are included in We the People and that the expression “no person” in the 5th Amendment means “no citizen”? None. You have no such proof because no such proof exists. You have been shown time and time again that legal due process rights are and have been extended to citizens only that are subject to U.S. law. You are either too dense to see or too obstinate to admit that you are flat wrong. You are not here to discuss, but rather to argue. You are little more than a bully.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by flaja

You have been shown time and time again that legal due process rights are and have been extended to non-citizens that are subject to U.S. law.

The flaw in the argument here is that POW non-citizens (these being de facto if not altogether de jure POWs) aren't reckoned by anyone anywhere as being actually subject to their captor nations' laws.

[xoxoxoBruce]

That's true, and the reason POWs treatment was addressed by the Geneva Convention. The wrinkle is Bush saying these are not POWs but a new class, called "illegal combatants". Being non-POWs, that makes this new class civilian criminals and subject to the laws of the "host" nation.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Wherever in the world it operates with US Citizens and it applies to those legal citizens only. So a US citizen captured in the Sudan while in the service of USAID for smuggling hash is subjected to our Constitution?

The person isn't subject to the Constitution, the government is. Wherever, and with respect to whoever, it operates. If the US citizen is captured in the Sudan by the Sudanese government, they are subject to the Sudanese government. If they are captured by the US government (putting aside the idea of the US government capturing people in Sudan), they are subject to the US government, which is itself subject to the US Constitution, no matter where it is acting.