Progressive Islam

Tasneem Project · 08-10-2003, 10:05 AM

In recent decades, a cultural and intellectual trend has emerged, expressing scepticism towards metanarratives which attempt to provide overviews of history, society and humanity. This trend has influenced thinking on socio-political issues and policies, with postmodernist scepticism particularly apparent in studies of gender, but with the same trends finding footholds in a whole range of issues, from international development to education.

Islam is a religion of metanarratives which express the aim of guiding believers in their everyday lives and also in their understanding of the world. Contemporary Muslims working and writing in English have attempted to respond to key socio-political issues with due regard to these grand metanarratives. However, some Muslims have felt it a matter of human and intellectual integrity to challenge or reintepret these metanarratives when confronting key contemporary issues. Frequently, their views have been met with hostility, ostracism and exile, and even murder.

Further information can be found via this links page, developed by a sociologist with a special interest in 'liberal' or 'progressive' Islam:

http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/LiberalIslamLinks.htm

wolf · 08-10-2003, 10:53 AM

Could you repeat that without use of postmodern, deconstructionist bullshit?

Metanarrative?

Tasneem Project · 08-10-2003, 12:02 PM

Could you repeat your question when you have remembered the manners your mummy taught you, and attended a college where they teach people how to interact in a meaningful way with intellectually challenging texts?

Whit · 08-10-2003, 12:20 PM

     It's ok Wolf, I think I've got it.

Quote:

a cultural and intellectual trend has emerged, expressing scepticism towards metanarratives which attempt to provide overviews of history, society and humanity.

Read as: People seem insulted when they are told how to think.

Quote:

with postmodernist scepticism particularly apparent in studies of gender,

Read as: Women need to get back in their place.

     Look Tasneem, I respect views other than mine and your right to hold them. But you don't get any Martyr points for it. You might consider the rights of others to look at an overview of Muslim society, see women treated very badly by our standards, the ones we grew up with here, and judge by those standards. Often times we won't look any deeper into the culture. That's tough. I don't care much about the inner beauty of a culture that teaches half it's population that it should be subservient to the other half. You can say that makes me a bad person if you wish, that's your prerogative. The difference is I won't complain, cast any accusations or martyr myself in response.

Tasneem Project · 08-10-2003, 12:56 PM

I find your intepretation of the quotes you selected intriguing. Even quite unique.

Your understanding and response are coloured entirely by your own very stereotypical views of Islam. They have nothing to do with the original statement whatsoever.

Liberal Islam is a broadbased, grassroots response to an intellectually intransigent and reactionary current within Islam. This current is seen as 'the' Islam by people like you, Daniel Pipes and his friends in the Whitehouse. If you simply bothered to check the link I posted above, and taken more than a few seconds to reflect on that information, you might have posted something which was actually referred to the real world outside of your own head.

This is why this forum has collapsed. It has become dominated by articulate but intellectually vacuous bullies. I think the term 'right wing bullshitters' kinda sums it up really.

Whit · 08-10-2003, 01:16 PM

     Actually, I've based my opinions on the people I've met and what I've seen. I've known Muslims, here in the US, and not liked the way they treated women. I hope that is clear now.
     Granted, I haven't met any 'Liberal Islamics' however if you are an example I don't see the change. You use big words and name call. You have been insulting and have a clearly displayed double standard. For example, you were extremely condescending to Wolf for the use of the word 'Bullshit' but then use the term "right wing bullshitters" freely yourself and obviously that's okay.

Quote:

This is why this forum has collapsed. It has become dominated by articulate but intellectually vacuous bullies. I think the term 'right wing bullshitters' kinda sums it up really.

     You clearly lable me a bully here, as well as call me stupid albiet in a verbose way. Think about it. Why are you on the attack if I am the bully? I'm ready to here you out, but I expect you to live up to the standards you set for others. As you said, remember the manners your mummy taught you. I am neither right-wing nor intelectually vacuous. I'm ready to listen, just talk to me with decency and without condecension.
     I thank you for saying that I'm articulate though, I do try.
     Now, want to retry this in simpler terms and explain the 'Liberal Islamic Movement' in your own words?

xoxoxoBruce · 08-10-2003, 01:16 PM

No, this thread has collapsed because your a pompous ass that want to tell us what to think.

08-10-2003, 01:18 PM

It's "you're", you old fart.

Isn't Islam that religion that teaches people to kill everyone?

elSicomoro · 08-10-2003, 01:27 PM

Organized religion is the greatest scam ever sold in the history of mankind.

juju · 08-10-2003, 02:46 PM

Scams have to have a mastermind, some person intentionally intending to deceive others. Now, I wasn't there when religion was invented, but I highly doubt it was intended to deceive. Most likely it was invented by people who couldn't accept the fact that they were ignorant.

Atheists are no better, of course.

elSicomoro · 08-10-2003, 02:52 PM

Jesus...Mohammed...Buddha...Luther...any of them could have been con artists.

xoxoxoBruce · 08-10-2003, 09:55 PM

Quote:

It's "you're", you old fart.

See, I told you dave still cares.

juju · 08-10-2003, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sycamore
Jesus...Mohammed...Buddha...Luther...any of them could have been con artists.

Got any evidence that might suggest it is so?

russotto · 08-11-2003, 01:33 PM

Liberal Islam?

Is that like Iranian moderates? As in "The Ayatollah Khomeni thanks you on the behalf of the Iranian moderates".

What Islam needs is a really good and deep internal schism, followed by a splintering into many sects with profoundly different basic beliefs, followed by a general disillusionment with the religion and its practices in general. Then, and only then, might it become profoundly less harmful.

xoxoxoBruce · 08-11-2003, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Jesus...Mohammed...Buddha...Luther...any of them could have been con artists.

I don't think any of them qualify as con artists simply because they didn't benefit from their work. If fact most suffered from it. The true con men are the ones that *organized* these teachings into religions for fun and profit. Once there is a profit then they're a target and tool for every con man that comes along.

08-10-2003, 10:05 AM	#1
Tasneem Project Writer of Writings Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: uk Posts: 14	Progressive Islam In recent decades, a cultural and intellectual trend has emerged, expressing scepticism towards metanarratives which attempt to provide overviews of history, society and humanity. This trend has influenced thinking on socio-political issues and policies, with postmodernist scepticism particularly apparent in studies of gender, but with the same trends finding footholds in a whole range of issues, from international development to education. Islam is a religion of metanarratives which express the aim of guiding believers in their everyday lives and also in their understanding of the world. Contemporary Muslims working and writing in English have attempted to respond to key socio-political issues with due regard to these grand metanarratives. However, some Muslims have felt it a matter of human and intellectual integrity to challenge or reintepret these metanarratives when confronting key contemporary issues. Frequently, their views have been met with hostility, ostracism and exile, and even murder. Further information can be found via this links page, developed by a sociologist with a special interest in 'liberal' or 'progressive' Islam: http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/LiberalIslamLinks.htm

08-10-2003, 10:53 AM	#2
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Could you repeat that without use of postmodern, deconstructionist bullshit? Metanarrative? __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

08-10-2003, 12:02 PM	#3
Tasneem Project Writer of Writings Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: uk Posts: 14	Could you repeat your question when you have remembered the manners your mummy taught you, and attended a college where they teach people how to interact in a meaningful way with intellectually challenging texts? __________________ http://www.geocities.com/yakoub0001/index.html

08-10-2003, 12:56 PM	#5
Tasneem Project Writer of Writings Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: uk Posts: 14	I find your intepretation of the quotes you selected intriguing. Even quite unique. Your understanding and response are coloured entirely by your own very stereotypical views of Islam. They have nothing to do with the original statement whatsoever. Liberal Islam is a broadbased, grassroots response to an intellectually intransigent and reactionary current within Islam. This current is seen as 'the' Islam by people like you, Daniel Pipes and his friends in the Whitehouse. If you simply bothered to check the link I posted above, and taken more than a few seconds to reflect on that information, you might have posted something which was actually referred to the real world outside of your own head. This is why this forum has collapsed. It has become dominated by articulate but intellectually vacuous bullies. I think the term 'right wing bullshitters' kinda sums it up really. __________________ http://www.geocities.com/yakoub0001/index.html

08-10-2003, 01:16 PM	#7
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	No, this thread has collapsed because your a pompous ass that want to tell us what to think. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

08-10-2003, 01:18 PM	#8
dave Guest Posts: n/a	It's "you're", you old fart. Isn't Islam that religion that teaches people to kill everyone?

08-10-2003, 01:27 PM	#9
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Organized religion is the greatest scam ever sold in the history of mankind.

08-10-2003, 02:46 PM	#10
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Scams have to have a mastermind, some person intentionally intending to deceive others. Now, I wasn't there when religion was invented, but I highly doubt it was intended to deceive. Most likely it was invented by people who couldn't accept the fact that they were ignorant. Atheists are no better, of course. Last edited by juju; 08-10-2003 at 02:49 PM.

08-10-2003, 02:52 PM	#11
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Jesus...Mohammed...Buddha...Luther...any of them could have been con artists.

08-11-2003, 01:33 PM	#14
russotto Professor Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 1,788	Liberal Islam? Is that like Iranian moderates? As in "The Ayatollah Khomeni thanks you on the behalf of the Iranian moderates". What Islam needs is a really good and deep internal schism, followed by a splintering into many sects with profoundly different basic beliefs, followed by a general disillusionment with the religion and its practices in general. Then, and only then, might it become profoundly less harmful.

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