What do you hear when people say freedom?

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by Stormieweather

A lot of people think 'freedom' means free to do what you like unless you violate MY moral code. Then that is just 'wrong' and should be stopped immediately.

Pedophiles are always doing that, thinking they are free to rape children.

My point being, where does one draw the line?

Ah, there's the rub.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Pedophiles are always doing that, thinking they are free to rape children.

My point being, where does one draw the line?

Ah, there's the rub.

I think the line is, as long as you aren't hurting another being (that would include animals, because I believe animals are as important and as sacred as people), then you should be able to do whatever you want. I also think we should not being doing harm to the earth. We should only take what we need.

In other words: harm none, but do what thou will.

When I hear the word freedom coming from a government, I hear: coercion, money, greed, power. Because everyone's definition of freedom is not the same, and other cultures are not the same, how can we define freedom for another?

To me, freedom would be no money, no government, no religion. Just people taking care of one another. Everyone would have everything they need. No one would have control over anyone else. I suppose I am just an anarchist, but at the same a socialist. I believe in the "village" mentality.

[henry quirk]

"I think the line is, as long as you aren't hurting another being (that would include animals, because I believe animals are as important and as sacred as people), then you should be able to do whatever you want."

why are other people sacred?

if joe has what i want, and i successfully take it, then joe loses

if i'm unsuccessful in taking it, then i lose

if i have something joe covets, and joe is successful is taking it, then he wins

if joe is unsuccessful, then i win

as for animals: nuthin' like a thick, juicy, rare, steak to fortify a body

my point: there's no reason not to steal, lie, cheat, or kill another other than pragmatism (and individual preference)

certainly: the great fictions of morality and law -- being fictions -- are next to useless


"I also think we should not being doing harm to the earth. We should only take what we need."

we are fleas on this planet...it'll be 'round long after humans kick off...i say: get now while the getting’s good...

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by henry quirk

if joe has what i want, and i successfully take it, then joe loses

No, Joe blows your head off.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by henry quirk

"I think the line is, as long as you aren't hurting another being (that would include animals, because I believe animals are as important and as sacred as people), then you should be able to do whatever you want."

why are other people sacred?

if joe has what i want, and i successfully take it, then joe loses

if i'm unsuccessful in taking it, then i lose

if i have something joe covets, and joe is successful is taking it, then he wins

if joe is unsuccessful, then i win

You are taking something from someone, so that is doing harm.

as for animals: nuthin' like a thick, juicy, rare, steak to fortify a body

Nothing wrong with eating meat, as long as you humanely kill the animal and don't waste anything.

my point: there's no reason not to steal, lie, cheat, or kill another other than pragmatism (and individual preference)

Of course there are reasons not to do those things; there are morals and ethics and decency.

certainly: the great fictions of morality and law -- being fictions -- are next to useless



"I also think we should not being doing harm to the earth. We should only take what we need."

we are fleas on this planet...it'll be 'round long after humans kick off...i say: get now while the getting’s good...

I would say we are more like a virus than fleas.