Bush Commutes Sentences of Border Patrol Agents

[Radar]

Those scumbags should still be in prison. It makes sense that Bush would commute the sentences of jackbooted fascist thugs from an illegal agency who shot a guy in the back who didn't have a weapon.

I only hope they suffered a lot in prison and got raped a bunch.

[dmg1969]

Originally Posted by Radar

Those scumbags should still be in prison. It makes sense that Bush would commute the sentences of jackbooted fascist thugs from an illegal agency who shot a guy in the back who didn't have a weapon.

I only hope they suffered a lot in prison and got raped a bunch.

Oh Please! Illegal agency? Jackbooted fascist thugs? I bet you're one of those who think we should just open our border and let anyone across! Perhaps we should have let the drug runner they shot have immediate citizenship? I don't applaud what they did to cover up the shooting, but I think we should have more border agents like them. Enough of this kid gloves approach to the border, drug smuggling and illegal immigrant problem.

Edit: I see you're in CA...hence your position of the subject.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by dmg1969

Oh Please! Illegal agency? Jackbooted fascist thugs? I bet you're one of those who think we should just open our border and let anyone across! Perhaps we should have let the drug runner they shot have immediate citizenship? I don't applaud what they did to cover up the shooting, but I think we should have more border agents like them. Enough of this kid gloves approach to the border, drug smuggling and illegal immigrant problem.

Edit: I see you're in CA...hence your position of the subject.

Actually, I'm a patriot who holds the same positions as the founders of America...hence my position on the subject. The founders didn't grant the federal government any Constitutional powers over immigration and they did this for a reason. They welcomed all immigrants from all parts of the world with open arms.

So yes, I do think we should allow any number of immigrants, from any country to cross our borders to live and work here. I do not think we should grant immediate citizenship, but I do think all immigrants are born with the same rights as any American citizen has other than voting, and they should be given the same due process as any citizen born here.

The man they shot was leaving. They shot him in the back. Whether or not he had drugs is irrelevant. All drugs should be legal, and since the federal government has absolutely zero powers to regulate or legislate immigration, that part of government should be abolished.

[lookout123]

rather than watch this go back and forth for the next four days with no change in opinions, dmg - please allow me to summarize what you will read if you continue this thread:

radar: we have natural rights that do not come from the government and the government has no right to step on those rights. if your neighbor was to shoot heroin into his scrotum while giving proper meth cooking directions to 13 illegal immigrants each holding a 50cal machine gun and laughing about the small thermonuclear device they've (paid for with money they saved by not paying those pesky illegal income taxes) built to protect their batch of biological weapons the government has no right to intervene because your neighbor is simply exercising his natural rights.

I think that about covers radar's beliefs.

[dmg1969]

OK. Well, now I understand your position. And I appreciate and respect you for it. I, however, disagree with it.

I also think immigrants should be allowed to enter and work in our country, but I expect them to do so legally. My maternal and paternal grandparents came from the Ukraine and Germany respectively. They did so legally by coming through Ellis Island...not sneeking across a border or on a boat that runs aground in the middle of the night.

I do not think that sneeking across the border and entering the country illegally should qualify someone to stay and/or work here. If I offer an apartment for rent and someone breaks into that apartment, should I still allow that person to rent from me? What does that say about his or her character?

If the government shouldn't have control over immigration and the borders, who should? Oh wait...you said, nobody...they should be open. Why not just give up our sovereignty altogether? Why not just merge with Mexico and Canada?

We have very different views on what it is to be a patriot, my friend. But that's OK...that's what being an American is all about!

[xoxoxoBruce]

But dmg, your views are so, so, so majority.

[dmg1969]

Yeah, I know...just call me crazy, Bruce.

And call me Dave.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by dmg1969

OK. Well, now I understand your position. And I appreciate and respect you for it. I, however, disagree with it.

I also think immigrants should be allowed to enter and work in our country, but I expect them to do so legally. My maternal and paternal grandparents came from the Ukraine and Germany respectively. They did so legally by coming through Ellis Island...not sneeking across a border or on a boat that runs aground in the middle of the night.

I do not think that sneeking across the border and entering the country illegally should qualify someone to stay and/or work here. If I offer an apartment for rent and someone breaks into that apartment, should I still allow that person to rent from me? What does that say about his or her character?

If the government shouldn't have control over immigration and the borders, who should? Oh wait...you said, nobody...they should be open. Why not just give up our sovereignty altogether? Why not just merge with Mexico and Canada?

We have very different views on what it is to be a patriot, my friend. But that's OK...that's what being an American is all about!

I also don't like the idea of people sneaking across the border. My family came to America before there was a processing center at Ellis island. They simply showed up and looked for work, and America was a better place for it.

When immigrants were processed at Ellis island, they simply showed up, took a physical, signed their name and they were legal. If the process were still that simple, we wouldn't have to worry about people sneaking in. They would prefer to walk in the front door, than crawl through the back door.

I'm not saying that the government can't have power over immigration. I'm saying it does not currently have that power. In order for the government to have this power, the U.S. Constitution would have to be amended. As it currently stands, states do have the legal power to regulate immigration, but the federal government does not.

Open immigration does nothing to reduce or increase our national sovereignty. Nor does it do anything to reduce or increase our national security. Peaceful immigrants are not an invasion and are not a threat.

I, like our founders, know that our strength is in our diversity and I welcome immigrants from all nations to America to become part of our melting pot. America is a nation built entirely by immigrants and the offspring of those immigrants. This is the beauty of America. I can go to China, Italy, or Germany but I can't become Chinese, Italian, or German. But anyone from China, Italy, or Germany can come to America and be just as American as anyone born here. In fact in many cases, they are MORE American because they don't take citizenship for granted. There are people in this world who would run through a hail of bullets to experience the kind of freedom and opportunity we have in America.

By allowing a free flow of immigrants into America, we ensure that we have a flow of fresh ideas and new approaches to our problems. In addition to immigrants not taking our freedoms for granted, they also tend to work harder than those who have been here longer and become soft.

Historically even going back to the founding of this country, there have always been alarmists who say that immigrants won't "assimilate" or "learn the language" even though America has never had an official language. History has proven them all to be wrong. Each new wave of immigrants has brought with them their home culture and that culture has become part of the melting pot. Each of them has eventually "assimilated" into the American culture.

A Mexican immigrant who sneaks across the border at night is no better or worse than German or Ukrainian immigrants who went to Ellis island. Both seek a better life and more opportunity for themselves and their offspring. The fact that one of them followed an unconstitutional procedure and the other didn't is irrelevant.

If the people of America want to amend the Constitution to have powers over immigration, then so be it. I just don't want our government to violate the Constitution or ignore it, and I don't appreciate people being falsely labeled as "illegal" immigrants when they have not violated any legitimate or Constitutional laws.

[Perry Winkle]

Amen.