I'm a Birdbrain

[Whit]

     Hey Ep, about this "All" idea... I like the idea of reincarnation, but am I reading you right in thinking that the soul that comes out of the pool is the same one that went into it? Perhaps just reformatted for a new life?
     Just curious 'cause I like the idea of getting to try again, but as an individualist I chafe at the idea of my mind/experiences getting mixed with those of others in some great metaphysical salad bowl.

[LUVBUGZ]

Originally posted by LUVBUGZ
Hey Els, long time no see. Back to my questions. So, w/in your coven what deities to you "worship" and what do they symbolize?

Catholics say it is a sin to worship deities and you'll go to hell for doing so.

Els......remember this post I made? I mispoke here. I was thinking about "idols", but said "deities" instead. Hence, I asked what they symbolize to you. In Catholism, I think "God" is our deity, but idolatry is a sin. I still don't think Catholics consider the Saints as deities, more like I said before that they pay homage to them. I guess they 'worship' them, but they do not idolize them, but I may be incorrect in using the term 'worship'. I think I'm getting caught up in a semantics thing, but I do know for sure that IDOLS are NO,NO's. So, do Wiccans have idols that they worship? And, if so what do they symbolize to them?

[Elspode]

Originally posted by LUVBUGZ


Els......remember this post I made? I mispoke here. I was thinking about "idols", but said "deities" instead. Hence, I asked what they symbolize to you. In Catholism, I think "God" is our deity, but idolatry is a sin. I still don't think Catholics consider the Saints as deities, more like I said before that they pay homage to them. I guess they 'worship' them, but they do not idolize them, but I may be incorrect in using the term 'worship'. I think I'm getting caught up in a semantics thing, but I do know for sure that IDOLS are NO,NO's. So, do Wiccans have idols that they worship? And, if so what do they symbolize to them?

Wiccans worship lots of idols...in my own coven, we pretty much use any god or goddess from any pantheon which suits our immediate need. I wouldn't term what we do as worship in the Christian sense. We are respectful to the icons when we ask for their participation, but since we aren't concerned about these deities/idols/etc screwing up our eternal souls, we don't worship in the normal sense. Our deities are a part of us, and we of them.

Does that answer your question? BTW, we have a spiffy collection of graven images in our coven room. I'll have to post a pic of them...

[Elspode]

Originally posted by Whit
     Hey Ep, about this "All" idea... I like the idea of reincarnation, but am I reading you right in thinking that the soul that comes out of the pool is the same one that went into it? Perhaps just reformatted for a new life?
     Just curious 'cause I like the idea of getting to try again, but as an individualist I chafe at the idea of my mind/experiences getting mixed with those of others in some great metaphysical salad bowl.

Well, I'm no great authority. I'm only speaking from my own understanding/view of The All, but yeah, I think it is supposed to be the same soul. This supposedly explains past life experiences and such.

I'm rather puzzled about it all, too. It is the idea of coherent consciousness throughout that appeals to me as well. I think we all want to remain unique, ourselves, no matter what else happens.

I can't say that I have any past life memories, though. Then again, I haven't had any regressions or past life readings done, partially because so much of that kind of thing is flim-flam, and I am, above all, a logical sort of person.

[LUVBUGZ]

Els, I'd love to see your pics. Post um when you get a chance, Please. My next question deals with spellwork and magic, which I note you spell differently than I do. So, what is this all about? These topics, along with the "external trappings" that we've discussed previously, are what most outsiders "fear" most about witchcraft. You know, people think that a spell was put on them and they are going to die or what not. So, what is spellwork and can you "put a spell" on a person so that bad things happen to them?

[Elspode]

Originally posted by LUVBUGZ
Els, I'd love to see your pics. Post um when you get a chance, Please. My next question deals with spellwork and magic, which I note you spell differently than I do. So, what is this all about? These topics, along with the "external trappings" that we've discussed previously, are what most outsiders "fear" most about witchcraft. You know, people think that a spell was put on them and they are going to die or what not. So, what is spellwork and can you "put a spell" on a person so that bad things happen to them?

My own personal view of spellwork is that it is essentially the same thing as prayer, or the power of positive thought, etc. The path I follow specifically forbids me "putting a spell" on someone. I don't mess with anyone's anything unless I've been asked to do so. That being said, not everyone who calls themselves witch follows this credo. Traditional witches do what they want, when they want. "And it harm none, do as ye will shall be the whole of the law" is a Wiccan precept, not a witchcraft precept. The Law of Three is similarly something which is not necessarily adhered to by anyone other than Wiccans.

So does that mean you should fear witches in general? Naw...not any more than you should fear anyone else. You, me, everyone - has the power to protect themselves from the actions of others, be those actions magickal or not. Be confident, be aware, stand by your own beliefs, and you'll be fine. Be hypocritical, be an asshole, etc...and bad things are going to happen to you, whether from a direct outside source or via Karma.

For me, everything is a choice. It is difficult to do *anything* without causing harm to *something*. It is something that we debate often in our community. In the end, it boils down to intent. Good intent is generally considered to better than bad intent. Intentional harm is bad, and you are going to get bad in return thrice over. Sometimes, one must judge the risks and do what they feel they have to do...but that is a very long and deep topic. Wiccan morality and ethics is a constantly evolving thing, I'm afraid.

I just like to sum it up by saying "I'm a good witch!"

I'll post pics of the ritual space when I have a little more time. Oh...and regarding the spelling difference between magic and magick...it is pretentious, first of all, and I admit that. In general, I think we use "magick" to differentiate between what we do in spellwork and those parlor tricks involving making ping pong balls disappear and women being sawed in half.

[LUVBUGZ]

Quote by Elspode
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"And it harm none, do as ye will shall be the whole of the law" is a Wiccan precept, not a witchcraft precept. The Law of Three is similarly something which is not necessarily adhered to by anyone other than Wiccans.
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I guess I'm not sure the difference between Wicca and witchcraft. The "bad witches" for lack of a better term, if not Wiccan, then what are they? If I met someone who said they were a witch, how do I know if they are a "good" witch or a "bad" witch?

When you do spellwork is it like sitting in a circle and chanting/praying? Do you actually do specific spells? Sabrina comes to mind, looking in her big Spell Book, following some recipe for a spell she wants to perform.

And, if you know of any examples, what kind of spells do "bad" witches think they can perform?

[xoxoxoBruce]

If I met someone who said they were a witch, how do I know if they are a "good" witch or a "bad" witch?

That's easy, you can always tell by the dark sky and background music.

[Happy Monkey]

Check whether they appear in a puff of flame and red smoke or a pink bubble.

[LUVBUGZ]

Funny guys (Bruce & Happy Monkey), but I'm asking the "good" witch, not you dorks:p

[xoxoxoBruce]

Everybody's got something to hide, 'cept me and monkey.:p

[Elspode]

Originally posted by LUVBUGZ
I guess I'm not sure the difference between Wicca and witchcraft. The "bad witches" for lack of a better term, if not Wiccan, then what are they? If I met someone who said they were a witch, how do I know if they are a "good" witch or a "bad" witch?

Well, therein lies the rub. Wiccans are witches, but not all witches are Wiccan. Wicca is based upon ancient European belief systems and practices. Witchcraft existed a long time before Wicca. Wicca is a modern codification of older, indigenous religious practices and folk beliefs. How do you tell the difference between a good witch and a bad witch? The same way you tell the difference between a good person and a bad one, I suppose. If someone works some bad juju on you (no, not *you*, Juju), then you should assume they are bad. If they say they are Wiccan and have still worked some bad juju on you, then you might want to ask them to re-examine their path a bit. If you meet someone who says they are a witch, ask them if they are Wiccan. If not, that doesn't necessarily make them a "bad" witch, anyway. It just means they don't adhere to the same ethos as Wiccans. I know witches who aren't Wiccan and are spiffy fine folks.

When you do spellwork is it like sitting in a circle and chanting/praying? Do you actually do specific spells? Sabrina comes to mind, looking in her big Spell Book, following some recipe for a spell she wants to perform.

Sometimes we sit, sometimes we stand, sometimes you do spellwork alone, other times with the coven. Do we have spell books? Well, some of us, yes. We call it a Book of Shadows in our coven (you may sometimes hear it referred to as a Grimoire, although we tend to think of that as more like a recipe book), and it is simply the accumulation of rituals, spells, journaling, lessons, etc, that one accumulates in the course of being a witch. For us, our BOS is a personal item, not to be shared. We have a coven BOS which is a record of the rituals, spellwork, etc we've done as a coven.

Yes, we do specific spells...it is sort of difficult to do a general spell. That would be kind of like asking someone for something that will make you happy for your birthday...you *might* get something you want, but the chances are reduced.

And, if you know of any examples, what kind of spells do "bad" witches think they can perform?

Well, pretty much anything you can think of, I guess. I'm not aware of anyone having been turned into a toad or such, but I have known of people who did things which were not intended to enhance the lives of others. I guess "bad" witches probably think they can do a lot more than they actually can, overall. It is all relative. If, as I said, one is cognizant and takes reasonable care about one's own path and lives honorably, it is probably going to be pretty hard for a "bad" witch to screw with you very much in the first place. Let me try an example, here...Let's say you have a good witch working for you, and also a bad witch. Let's then say that neither of them like you very much (which is highly unlikely, I am sure . ) The good witch might do a spell to facilitate a promotion, so that they no longer have to work under you. A bad witch would work a spell intended to have you fired, become ill, or otherwise gotten out of their hair in some rather more nasty way.

It all comes down to intent and approach.

[LUVBUGZ]

Originally posted by Elspode
Sometimes we sit, sometimes we stand, sometimes you do spellwork alone, other times with the coven. Do we have spell books? Well, some of us, yes. We call it a Book of Shadows in our coven (you may sometimes hear it referred to as a Grimoire, although we tend to think of that as more like a recipe book), and it is simply the accumulation of rituals, spells, journaling, lessons, etc, that one accumulates in the course of being a witch. For us, our BOS is a personal item, not to be shared. We have a coven BOS which is a record of the rituals, spellwork, etc we've done as a coven.

I want to make sure I'm reading this right. So aside from the coven BOS, each individual witch has a BOS that is private and kinda like a diary for them? So, what exactly is in the Grimoire Spell Book? I'm trying to figure out if you have a spell for specific things like say, becoming more beautiful. Where you go to the Grimoire and look up a potion for "how to beautify somebody", then make up some drink with Green tea, two drops of bat's blood, a pinch of virgin hair, and rose pedals; then drink it and "Poof" you're beautiful Kinda lame example, but I hope you get what I'm trying to ask

[Elspode]

Originally posted by LUVBUGZ
I want to make sure I'm reading this right. So aside from the coven BOS, each individual witch has a BOS that is private and kinda like a diary for them? So, what exactly is in the Grimoire Spell Book? I'm trying to figure out if you have a spell for specific things like say, becoming more beautiful. Where you go to the Grimoire and look up a potion for "how to beautify somebody", then make up some drink with Green tea, two drops of bat's blood, a pinch of virgin hair, and rose pedals; then drink it and "Poof" you're beautiful Kinda lame example, but I hope you get what I'm trying to ask

Well, we are encouraged to have our own BOS, but not everyone keeps one. I personally do not have spells pre-written for varying purposes. When I have a desire or a need, I simply think about what I want/need (and why I think I want or need it) for awhile. Then, I start considering various aspects of spellwork, and how I can use the Elements, my magickal tools, candles, oils, herbs, moon phase, astrological portents, etc in some combination or combinations to further my spellwork.

It is really a bit too involved to go into in depth, because there are many, many angles and ways to approach spellwork. That's why we teach ourselves about so many different areas...well, one of the reasons, anyway.

I am woefully bad about creating specific spells and writing them out because, honestly, what works for me probably won't work for someone else. Spells are very personal, and it wouldn't do me any good to hand someone else a spell for a specific purpose...it probably wouldn't work for them at all. I just create spells as I need them. If there are any absolute, surefire spells that work for everyone who says the same words and uses the same substances, I haven't heard of them...and if anyone tells you otherwise, I'd be dubious.

When we do spellwork in coven, we discuss it all in advance and prepare each other for what we will be doing, things we will be visualizing, the herbs, etc, we will be using. In that way, we're all on the same page, working toward the same purpose. That sort of thing can't be accomplished by sending someone a bunch of words and instructions via email or something.

It is very common for young people to find their ways to witchcraft mailing lists, and ask people for specific spells. Usually, they'll get them, because, as I have consistently said, not everyone believes as I do or works as I do.

I have a friend who once was asked for a spell to change hair color (like in the movie "The Craft"...blech). His response? "First, light a candle that is as close to the same color as you want your hair to be. Concentrate on it with all your mind and soul. Then, get in the car, drive to Osco, pick up a hair dye kit of the appropriate color, and go home and make it happen."

The moral? *You* make things happen, and don't overlook the obvious and easy paths when they are right in front of you.

As for a grimoire, that would tend to contain things more along the lines of medicinal potions, or incense formulations, oil mixtures, candlemaking instructions, that sort of thing. Magickal potions tend to be concocted like spellwork (because without the spellwork, those things are just mixtures of stuff)...on an as needed basis, on a case by case basis. And, of course, this is only the way *I* do it. I'm sure someone, somewhere, has an extensive list of potions, spells, etc, and they'd be more than happy to give (or more likely *sell*) them to you. None of it will do you a bit of good, because the only way any of it works is by dint of your own will, your own intent, your own energies.

[juju]

Did someone say my name?