Any comments about Mr Madoff?

[Happy Monkey]

That's not true. The absolute worst case scenario for Social Security is that all of the beneficiaries split up all of the contributors' tax contributions. This could (depending on the ratio of workers to retired/disabled) be less than is currently promised, but will never be zero. It will never fail. And the rates/retirement ages/upper tax limits can be adjusted for the times.

A Ponzi scheme with only two levels, in which everyone (who doesn't die early) gets to be in the top level eventually, isn't really a Ponzi scheme.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

It will never fail. And the rates/retirement ages/upper tax limits can be adjusted for the times.

Ok, I've not thought of it this way before, I recognize that there will be little to nothing when I retire and try to plan accordingly.

But for the sake of the argument, if they raise the age to say 80 and I die at 79 1/2 how much do I get?

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by classicman

Ok, I've not thought of it this way before, I recognize that there will be little to nothing when I retire and try to plan accordingly.

You recognize incorrectly, then. As stated, there will definitely not be "nothing". The actual amount is dependant on many varibles, including the ratio of workers to retirees and the state of the economy (how much total salary there is to tax). It will probably be significant, but it is always good to plan to have more, if you can.

But for the sake of the argument, if they raise the age to say 80 and I die at 79 1/2 how much do I get?

It depends on whether you opted to enter the program early at a reduced payout.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by classicman

But for the sake of the argument, if they raise the age to say 80 and I die at 79 1/2 how much do I get?

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

It depends on whether you opted to enter the program early at a reduced payout.

Lets use the above example and say I stop working and die at 79. How much am I getting after contributing my whole life? No, I am not opting for a reduced payout.

[tw]

Originally Posted by classicman

Lets use the above example and say I stop working and die at 79. How much am I getting after contributing my whole life?

Why are you confusing insurance with something completely irrelevant to Madoff? You obviously know the difference. Why are you confusing investment with insurance - two completely different topics?

Thousands of people contribute to insurance and get nothing so that the one gets reimbursement. Madoff was not an insurance company regulated by a state (ie NY). Madoff was an investment banker regulated by the organization gutted by a political agenda: the Security and Exchange Commission.