Any comments about Mr Madoff?

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

It's the law. I guess if you never make enough money to reach it you really could not give a shit about anyone who does pay into it.

Class warfare? Give me a friggin' break. IF they are going to tax people's income for SS, they should tax the WHOLE income.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

Class warfare? Give me a friggin' break. IF they are going to tax people's income for SS, they should tax the WHOLE income.

And everyone should get taxed the same regardless of how much or little you make. When the minority of income earners pay income taxes there is a huge problem.

[tw]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

And everyone should get taxed the same regardless of how much or little you make.

Which means tax rates on the rich would have to increase.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by tw

Which means tax rates on the rich would have to increase.

Why? If the rate is currently 36% & going up to 39% how is a flat tax of 15% an increase?

[tw]

Originally Posted by classicman

Why? If the rate is currently 36% going up to 39% how is a flat tax of 15% an increase?

You can't be that naive. With tax breaks and other money games, the rich are paying a lower percentage. Again, as Warren Buffet so often notes bluntly, he is paying less taxes than his receptionist. The rich have low taxes. Americans have some of the lowest tax rates in the world. That reality is not popular where right wing extremists hype myths. But the reality - if the rich are paying tax rates that high, then they must be ignorant or have really bad financial planners. Estimates put the average 'rich man' tax rates at somewhere between 20% and 23%.

Even more stunning is a study performed for the Senate by the GAO at the request of Sen Leven. At least 50% of American corporations pay no taxes. Again this is not popular among those who also knew Saddam had WMDs. These 'oppressive taxes' do not exist once a political agenda is replaced by facts. Classicman plays dumb about a 36% tax rate. He's not that stupid.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by tw

Which means tax rates on the rich would have to increase.

Originally Posted by classicman

Why? If the rate is currently 36% & going up to 39% how is a flat tax of 15% an increase?

Originally Posted by tw

Estimates put the average 'rich man' tax rates at somewhere between 20% and 23%.
These 'oppressive taxes' do not exist once a political agenda is replaced by facts. Classicman plays dumb about a 36% tax rate. He's not that stupid.

OK, So according to YOU, the average "average 'rich man' tax rates average out at at somewhere between 20% and 23%. I'm not a mathematician, but thats still more than 15% last I checked.

No, I'm not stupid at all, in fact I am smart enough not to make assumptions about what you mean when your post is so vague. Lets try to stay on topic though - mmmkay?

[tw]

Originally Posted by classicman

OK, So according to YOU, the average "average 'rich man' tax rates average out at at somewhere between 20% and 23%. I'm not a mathematician, but thats still more than 15% last I checked.

Your numbers were 36%. Now you are posting 15%? What is the group only paying 15%? Get you head on straight. What are your numbers? Forcing you to do something you rarely do - commit to something - provide facts.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by tw

You can't be that naive. With tax breaks and other money games, the rich are paying a lower percentage. Again, as Warren Buffet so often notes bluntly, he is paying less taxes than his receptionist. The rich have low taxes. Americans have some of the lowest tax rates in the world. That reality is not popular where right wing extremists hype myths. But the reality - if the rich are paying tax rates that high, then they must be ignorant or have really bad financial planners. Estimates put the average 'rich man' tax rates at somewhere between 20% and 23%.

Even more stunning is a study performed for the Senate by the GAO at the request of Sen Leven. At least 50% of American corporations pay no taxes. Again this is not popular among those who also knew Saddam had WMDs. These 'oppressive taxes' do not exist once a political agenda is replaced by facts. Classicman plays dumb about a 36% tax rate. He's not that stupid.

Dammit, I wish I could remember where I heard this. Apparently there is a really rich guy in NY (like, multi-multi-multi-millionaire) who hasn't paid any taxes, in YEARS. He actually brags about it. Does the IRS go after him? NOOOOO. Sorry I can't remember who he is or where I heard that.

True story, back in the 80s, my sister lived in NY. My parents and I went to visit her. We were out on the street, and this guy was asking for spare change. My mom started to give him some money when a cop stopped her. He told us the man begging was filthy rich, and that he did that on the side and raked in the bucks doing it.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

And everyone should get taxed the same regardless of how much or little you make. When the minority of income earners pay income taxes there is a huge problem.

HUH? WTF are you talking about?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

HUH? WTF are you talking about?

What do you mean? You don't believe that a minority of income earners pay the majority of income taxes?

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

What do you mean? You don't believe that a minority of income earners pay the majority of income taxes?

I don't understand what you're saying. I'm probably having a Homer moment.

I believe most of the money paid out in income taxes comes from the majority of the people - you know, the middle class, the working class, and upper middle class - not the people at the top who end up paying less because of tax loopholes and offshore accounts.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

What do you mean? You don't believe that a minority of income earners pay the majority of income taxes?

I don't understand what you're saying. I'm probably having a Homer moment.

I believe most of the money paid out in income taxes comes from the majority of the people - you know, the middle class, the working class, and upper middle class - not the people at the top who end up paying less because of tax loopholes and offshore accounts.

So what did you mean by this? When the minority of income earners pay income taxes there is a huge problem.