I'm a Birdbrain

[LUVBUGZ]

Originally posted by Whit
      I think you mispoke here. You wouldn't be "killing" the soul, just releasing it. Liberating the soul, if you will. Viva la liberation!

I wouldn't say I mispoke, I just couldn't put into words what I was really trying to say, that's why I put it in quotes, I was trying to say something like kinda killing it, but not really which makes no sense at all. I know the soul wouldn't be killed, but it seems like if your killing the soul's vessel that in some way you would be at least "harming" the soul. That doesn't really sound right either, but if I put it a different way, you might kinda get what I'm trying to say. New version: So, if killing the cow is simply releasing the soul and not "harming" it, then why would it NOT be OK for me to kill a person and say well I was simply liberating their soul?

[LUVBUGZ]

Originally posted by quzah


Thank you Queen Anal. I acknowledge your nit-picks.

The fact of the matter is, a mosquito bite itches. A spider bite itches. Thus, they are similar. It's much simpler to say you're poisoned by a mosquito than it is to say "I had an anticoagulant injected into me through the mosquito's proboscis, and as a result, I have a swolen bump on my arm that itches like a spider bite would."

Now run along and play.

Quzah.

Hey I really like the "Queen Anal" title, that's the closest I'll ever get to royality, may I use it as my new tag line? Re: mosquito bites......OK, Quzah, no need for hostilities. I was only trying to edify you, not moronize you (don't bother dictionary.com-ing this one I just made it up ). BTY, swollen has two L's:p

[quzah]

Originally posted by LUVBUGZ
New version: So, if killing the cow is simply releasing the soul and not "harming" it, then why would it NOT be OK for me to kill a person and say well I was simply liberating their soul?

Well spoken. That's exactly the point I was attempting to make. If everything has a soul, then the only difference in killing a person versus a mosquito is the value attached to the person versus the value attached to the mosquito.

Thus, if I don't value you at all, it there should be no penalty for me killing you. I mean really, that's exactly what people do every day. You assign a lesser value to indirectly killing a ___ and eating its 'product' than you do 'suffering' the inconvenience of going without.

Quzah.

[Whit]

From Bugz:
So, if killing the cow is simply releasing the soul and not "harming" it, then why would it NOT be OK for me to kill a person and say well I was simply liberating their soul?

      Because it's illegal ya big silly. Actually, it's illegal to kill the cow too except in specific circumstances.
      In the mosquito example, the mesquito's family won't hunt your ass down and kill you in return. A little fact of life now boy and girl, we are animals. We're just on top of the food chain. We eat, we shit, and we die, just like they do. You're both so busy being holier-than-thou that you forget the only reason we don't live in caves and hide from carnivors is we got smart enough to kill their asses. What's more, we will continue to do so, as a part of nature. Not because we are better than them, as your arrogant asses suggest, but because we are them. We just kill better.
      This goes up too, and includes killing our own when they don't follow pack rules. So go ahead. Kill someone to prove it's no different. See ya on deathrow.

[quzah]

Originally posted by Whit
We're just on top of the food chain. We eat, we shit, and we die, just like they do. You're both so busy being holier-than-thou that you forget the only reason we don't live in caves and hide from carnivors is we got smart enough to kill their asses. What's more, we will continue to do so, as a part of nature. Not because we are better than them, as your arrogant asses suggest, but because we are them. We just kill better.

Thanks for reminding me that I need to type as if I'm speaking to the narrow-minded masses. Let me state this slowly and plainly so you can understand, since you've obviously missed the vein of this thread.

You can have it one of two ways, not both.

First, the "soul" view of things, as it's been discussed in this thread.

1) We are assuming or granting all things souls.
2) We were speaking of reincarnation, in that, you may possibly be coming back as anything.
3) We've determined that the only difference in killing a human as opposed to any other animal is the personal value placed on it.

Now, if that is given, then it would be stupid to kill anything, since they would all have the same value. Killing a mosquito would be like killing your brother.

You can modify this slightly, and give everything a soul, but give them different "levels" of souls. Thus, when you reincarnate, you either move up a level or down. Here again it would seem foolish to go around killing things, since this may affect how your soul evolves.

You can modify this even more, and remove souls from everything except humans. In which case, what does it matter if I go and kill your dog? I'll pay you the $300 bucks he cost and we'll call it even. I mean, it's just a soul-less piece of flesh. I was hungry. No big loss. And hell, if it was a pound-puppy, you made a few bucks off my meal.

You can modify this more, and remove souls from humans, in which case we're just "smart animals". In which case, who gives a shit what I kill. They're all equal. Seriously, if we're all just animals, then what of "morality"? There is no point, since we're all just beasts. It's survival of the fittest. Thus, if I have better firepower, I can simply terminate all of you and it'll make me leader of the pack, if I so choose to leave any of you alive.

Basicly we as people just pick whatever one we we think fits best. Take your pick.

Quzah.

[LUVBUGZ]

Originally posted by Whit
      Because it's illegal ya big silly. Actually, it's illegal to kill the cow too except in specific circumstances.
      In the mosquito example, the mesquito's family won't hunt your ass down and kill you in return. A little fact of life now boy and girl, we are animals. We're just on top of the food chain. We eat, we shit, and we die, just like they do. You're both so busy being holier-than-thou that you forget the only reason we don't live in caves and hide from carnivors is we got smart enough to kill their asses. What's more, we will continue to do so, as a part of nature. Not because we are better than them, as your arrogant asses suggest, but because we are them. We just kill better.
      This goes up too, and includes killing our own when they don't follow pack rules. So go ahead. Kill someone to prove it's no different. See ya on deathrow.

Fuckin' A Whit, I thought we were past the name calling and all the other BS you and others have been on my ass about. Here I am replying to your post, clarifying my point for you in a civil, calm manner, not "attacking" in any way and look at the response I get from *you*. You condescendingly refer to me as a "girl", which I am not, I'm probably older that you are. Trying to enlighten me with the revelation that "we" are animals too, when I have made this point numerously in the Big Pig abortion. You call me an "arrogant ass", which I might point out is completely uncalled for and IS most definitely beyond any reasonable doubt a PERSONAL ATTACK on me. And talk about "holier-than-thou", just because we (you and I) have a slightly differing view on a issue, which I thought we were disscussing in an adult manner, you now seem to be recanting your earlier claim that *you *, so rightous and moral, believing that all humans deserve the right to live, who would NEVER suggest that I deserve to die on a collapsing bridge would now find glee in me being sent to DEATHrow for simply disagreeing with your ideas on a particular issue. Did you just have another long, stressful day at work or are your true colors just oozing out onto the page I do believe you have taken my example and twisted it to what you wish I meant so that you could then use it to justify your rude behavior towards me. I was simply throwing the thought out there in an attempt to convey my idea that...assuming both cow and human have a soul (which was the premise of this discussion), and in killing either of them the soul is neither harmed nor killed, but rather simply liberated it from it's earthly vessel (which was your idea, not mine), then how is killing the cow any different from killing the human? I'm not saying it is or isn't, I'm simply posing the question? Relax Whit, calm down and take a deep breath. No one is attacking you, I'm trying to help you, you seem to be so set in your ideas that you are unwilling to accept that some else views things differently than you do. I mean isn't that the whole point of a public forum? To maybe look at things in a different way than you have been. Everyone has a right to their opinion and were are all there to discuss, debate, maybe learn something, or to think about things in a way we have never thought to view them before.

[LUVBUGZ]

Hey Quzah, you never said if it was OK for me to use the "Queen Anal" thing? I really like it, it fits me perfectly

[quzah]

Originally posted by LUVBUGZ
Hey Quzah, you never said if it was OK for me to use the "Queen Anal" thing? I really like it, it fits me perfectly

Whatever floats your boat. Or to be on topic, whatever frees your soul.

Quzah.

[juju]

Originally posted by LUVBUGZ
So, if killing the cow is simply releasing the soul and not "harming" it, then why would it NOT be OK for me to kill a person and say well I was simply liberating their soul?

Because, most people like humans more than they like cows. They've designed their laws and morality appropriately.

Yeah, I'd say you misspoke.

[Whit]

From Quzah:
3) We've determined that the only difference in killing a human as opposed to any other animal is the personal value placed on it.

      Quzah, first off you put forth this notion. Nobody except Bugz actually excepted it. Hasn't really been discussed. Sorry, if you didn't read the thread.
      Also, one more time, I'm fine with the idea of eating the cow that housed my brothers soul. I've already said I don't see where that would matter. It's you that decided that this would be a problem. That's fine if it's a problem for you, but I don't care. You seem to think you made a perfect point here but ya didn't. You see, if someone did believe in reincarnation then, would likely believe that person is meant to live as a cow, and even die as one. Before you bring up the Hindu's not eating cows for an example you need to look in to it, there's more to it than that. End of story. It was my brothers turn to develop the steak on mytable and I'll enjoy it and appreciate him for it.

      Bugz, as far as the "arrogant ass" and "girl" thing go, I also forgot you are the only one allowed to joke with others. I was actually chuckling after I wrote that. But you what? you can take it as an attack. You take being asked how the weather is as an attack. Whatever. I've tried to be cool with you Bugz, I really have. Seems to me that you can't be joked with and you can't discuss opinions without getting upset. See, I don't care though. Get upset, but try to make a valid point once in a while. Let's see what you've had to say today...

Trying to enlighten me with the revelation that "we" are animals too, when I have made this point numerously in the Big Pig abortion.

      Then why didn't you listen to yourself?
      Hmmm, now we have more of the "I've been responded too, I'm under attack!" stuff we all expect out of all your posts...

From Bugz:
NEVER suggest that I deserve to die on a collapsing bridge would now find glee in me being sent to DEATHrow for simply disagreeing with your ideas

      Actually, I suggested you would be sent to deathrow for killing a human being, sorry if you didn't read you own post.

then how is killing the cow any different from killing the human?

      Sigh, have you ever read a post before responding? Clearly not this time. Here, I'll repost it for ya so you don't have to go back.

From me:
This goes up too, and includes killing our own when they don't follow pack rules.

      So you see, I'm suggesting the difference is that you will go to deathrow. Lot's of luck actually reading this post this time.
      By the by, you have changed my opinions. I really hadn't thought about it before, but you and Quzah have convinced me that eating animals is natural and right. It should be done, I am now convinced. So thanks.

[juju]

Quzah, are you saying that without souls, there is no morality?

[LUVBUGZ]

Originally posted by juju
Because, most people like humans more than they like cows. They've designed their laws and morality appropriately.

Yeah, I'd say you misspoke.

Say what you will juju, but do not believe I misspoke, I was simply conveying my idea.

[LUVBUGZ]

Well Whit if what you wrote was humor, I'm sorry that I didn't find it funny. So now I can't read or communitcate, great. I never said I fully except Quzah's notions, but at least I can discuss them without resorting to your level. As I've said before I eat meat too, so it's not like I'm defending Quzah and his vegan view of things, but I'm simply writing out my thoughts and in doing so am able to see where my own logic has flaws. At least I can accept that my thinking isn't perfect and continue discussing issues to try and mold my ideas, where as you are set in your ideas and are unwilling to even consider that they may be flawed as well. BTY, I'm glad I have solidified your idea that eating animals is natural and right. That's what were all here for, to put our views to the test and decide through discussion and communication whether we still believe in them or if we have decided to alter them a bit after seeing what others ideas are and the basis for their differing views.

[Elspode]

I just want to say, once again, that everyone needs to listen to The Arrogant Worms' "Carrot Juice is Murder", and get a little perspective. Then, afterward, eat whatever the hell you want and let everyone else eat what they want.

How do we know that vegetables don't have feelings? What about all that stuff about plants having an energy field, and responding to music, and kind words?

Maybe we should all just starve and die in moral perfection

[bmgb]

Is eating animals natural and right? IMO probably not, and certainly not for me personally. (Although I recently dated a guy who is allergic to beans and had to chuckle at the irony of that.)

Is it necessary? Not at all to the extent that it's done.

Do one's eating habits depend simply on the value they attribute to other lifeforms? Abso-fucking-lutely.

It is all about values. People eat meat because they like it and they value their desire for over the life of the animal. That's pretty much the conclusion that this thread came to.