Any comments about Mr Madoff?

[classicman]

Also an interesting side statistic - 90% of Americans make less that 108k

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by classicman

Also an interesting side statistic - 90% of Americans make less that 108k

That's why they end up paying less of the total amount I suppose. But, they DO pay a bigger PERCENTAGE of their actual salary. Unless they are self-employed, and they can write off a bunch of expenses.

You know, really, if you make a half billion dollars, you can afford to pay a large chunk of it. It really wouldn't affect your lifestyle because you would never miss it. Who can spend that much money? No one. If you make $50,000, you WOULD miss it. It would affect your lifestyle. Or if you make $30,000, or $20,000, or shit, $10,000. It's much harder to give away part of your earnings when you're barely making money, and let's face it, those salaries, that is not much to live on. $500,000,000.00 though? Come on. You (not you personally classic) can't honestly say you think they should have the same tax rate as someone who only makes $30k? That is insane!

[classicman]

Look at it if they both paid 15%.

Do you think its fair to take almost 40% of someones income on federal taxes, not to mention any applicable state, local, county and/or city taxes? That puts their gross tax rate well over 50%. How would you like that? Does that seem fair to you?

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by classicman

Look at it if they both paid 15%.

Do you think its fair to take almost 40% of someones income on federal taxes, not to mention any applicable state, local, county and/or city taxes? That puts their gross tax rate well over 50%. How would you like that? Does that seem fair to you?

If they have a billion dollars, yea, I do. And EVERYONE pays all those other taxes. You make it sound like only rich people pay them. We are taxed to death in this country.

[tw]

Originally Posted by classicman

Look at it if they both paid 15%.

Do you think its fair to take almost 40% of someones income on federal taxes,

Which is why the people who pay a higher percentage - the average income earning - do not pay 40%.

A flat tax does not become fair until the numbers are more like 23%. Then the rich will pay more taxes.

40% is the myth classicman keeps promoting. A 15% flat tax is only another mythical tax cut as defined by Buffet. Since the only tax cut also cuts spending, then a 15% flat tax only makes more recessions - as demonstrated repeatedly by history.

If the flat tax required the rich to pay 23%, then the rich suffer a tax increase. Flat tax is not the problem. Problem is a mythical and economically destructive number - 15%. A number not possible due to unpaid bills such as $1trillion for "Mission Accomplished".

[classicman]

Originally Posted by tw

Which is why the people who pay a higher percentage - the average income earning - do not pay 40%.

They pay the % they are required, how much of their income is taxable is, I believe your issue. Poorly written or intentionally misleading?

Originally Posted by tw

A flat tax does not become fair until the numbers are more like 23%. Then the rich will pay more taxes.

Cite please.

Originally Posted by tw

40% is the myth classicman keeps promoting. A 15% flat tax is only another mythical tax cut as defined by Buffet. Since the only tax cut also cuts spending, then a 15% flat tax only makes more recessions - as demonstrated repeatedly by history.

Cite please. You're back to making all these statements without a shred of proof or support ... again.

Originally Posted by tw

Problem is a mythical and economically destructive number - 15%.

Problem is mythical posts without ANY substantive data to back them up.

I noticed you've not posted much recently - Convenient is how it was right after you were last asked REPEATEDLY to support your claims with evidence and you wouldn't or couldn't?

[tw]

Originally Posted by classicman

Cite please.

Citations were already provided. Posting repeatedly without any citations is classicman's mythical 15% number. A number that has zero basis in economic reality and only means an increasing national debt. That 15% is promoted by those who are so dumb as to want even more tax cuts ... as if we have not done enough damage to the economy.

We still have many extremist lies to pay for: ie "Mission Accomplished". A $1trillion bill that will do to the American economy what Nixon did to the 1975/1979 economy. No money game - ie 15% flat tax - will cure a problem created by economic perverts who thought tax cuts are good.

Buffet was blunt about such stupid people. “The only tax cut is one that cuts spending.”

We cannot cut spending. Cheney created massive deficits while bragging, "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." We will be paying for fiscal mismanagement for the next ten years. And now some want to make it worse with a 15% flat tax? How much longer do we have to listen to extremists propaganda?

Tax cuts, in the long term, create a worse economy. 15% flat tax is nothing more than another tax cut. We are now seeing the 'wealth' created by wacko extremist tax cuts and other economic incentives. The only solution to long term wealth includes a balanced budget. Something we almost had - and then wackos started inventing money games to *stimulate* the economy.

A balanced budget means the world does not get rich funding American deficits. To fix a mess created by George Jr and his Project for a New American Century administration will probably take the next ten years. And still fools are promoting another destruction of America - a 15% flat tax.

Maybe it might be possible. But first we must to pay for the George Jr disasters starting with the most obvious of lies including "Mission Accomplished" and a zero effort to get bin Laden.

Citation for that 15% tax cut: endorsed by extremists. And still some don't acknowledge that is a source of economic perversion.

Another bill created by George Jr economic stimulus - Madoff. He could not have done it without government cooperation - such as ignoring a long list of whistleblowers.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by tw

Citations were already provided.

WHERE? If true, then post a link to them.

Originally Posted by tw

Posting repeatedly without any citations is classicman's mythical 15% number.

I post cites with virtually EVERY POST. If I am posting my opinion it is clearly apparent that it is my opinion and obviously no cite is needed. tw however has been posting his opinions as facts for years. Since getting called on it, tw has been unsuccessfully trying to use this as a diversionary tactic with other posters. Take a look at your last 50 posts, tw and post how many of them had cites to back up your "facts" - read opinions. I already know the answer.

Now back to the topic at hand...
The 15% was an arbitrary, hypothetical figure mentioned for discussion - a starting point, nothing more. That figure was chosen as it has been discussed in the past. Nothing was etched in stone as tw would have some believe. Perhaps the number is 10%, 17% or even 25% - That is not the point. The point being discussed when that was brought up which was as usual, missed by tw, is
the concept of a flat tax versus the current structure.

Originally Posted by tw

15% flat tax - will cure a problem created by economic perverts who thought tax cuts are good.
Buffet was blunt about such stupid people. “The only tax cut is one that cuts spending.”

Thats not at all what Mr. Buffet said this morning on CNBC. In fact, he thinks we need to do both. He repeatedly stated that doing exclusively one or the other is foolish. He continued that using both means is not only necessary, but the most prudent. Guess that bluntly makes tw stupid.

Originally Posted by tw

A 15% flat tax is nothing more than another tax cut.

As previously stated - this is off topic, but if that is true, then why are the rich so adverse to it? Because it removes all their deductions? Because, in fact, it really wouldn't be a tax cut if done properly, for example the right percentage?

Originally Posted by tw

The only solution to long term wealth includes a balanced budget.

With this, I agree 100%

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by classicman

Also an interesting side statistic - 90% of Americans make less that 108k

Individuals or households?